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[BUG] Angela's Angelic Smite spam

Askani'sonLocation Austin, TXPosts: 2,564 Cosmic

@Cavalcanti said:

@Psimitar said:

@Cavalcanti said:

@Psimitar said:

@Cavalcanti said:

@Psimitar said:

@zWolfiez said:
Psychic Domination can still be used for it's Damage Over Time effect, which I'm fixing so that it will properly synergize with Drain Psyche...thank you for letting me know about that, by the way. It also shouldn't swap your existing minion, so once you have one you are happy with you can still use it as a damaging layer. We can investigate other alternatives once this change goes through if it still needs some tweaking.

While you're tinkering with Emma can you please fix her floating attributes? I realize that it's by design but having to go from Templar to Tank every time she goes into her diamond form is murder to try to gear around, especially if you're using a hybrid build. And, since her sig is all mental, the only way you can not play a hybrid build is if you go full mental. And even then her dash makes the swap so you're back to square one. Can we please just leave her as a Templar and call it a day?

I gear my hybrid Emma with Intelligence and Durability. I know that it's kinda a mess those alternating stats but I like the way that this represent her diamond/telepath changes. About the dash, if they go to the "don't change her form to diamond form when we use it" it will destroy her survability in hard contents - because her armor only is active when in diamond form. Some people have suggested a psychic barrier like Psylocke's one but it doesn't go anywhere.

I go heavy on Durability and try to keep her Intelligence and Strength about even so that when I swap I don't see a big difference. I would prefer her simply be Durability/Intelligence. From a lore perspective, her diamond form does not grant her super strength so I don't see why she should have strength in the first place other than to make it easier for people who are going full melee to gear her.

I completely agree with you. They should make her mental form int/energy and her diamond form int/durability. It will be more accurate.

I actually don't think you agree. I'm proposing making her Durability/Intelligence regardless of what form she takes. Having her attributes shift between forms doesn't make any kind of sense and they don't do it for other "shifting" characters such as Vision. You're just trading one headache for a different headache.

I read too fast. And I still support this idea!

Yeah, I was in mid-post when I saw you're previous response as well. Hope I didn't sound combative.

Posts: 589 Amazing

@Psimitar said:

@Cavalcanti said:

@Psimitar said:

@Cavalcanti said:

@Psimitar said:

@Cavalcanti said:

@Psimitar said:

@zWolfiez said:
Psychic Domination can still be used for it's Damage Over Time effect, which I'm fixing so that it will properly synergize with Drain Psyche...thank you for letting me know about that, by the way. It also shouldn't swap your existing minion, so once you have one you are happy with you can still use it as a damaging layer. We can investigate other alternatives once this change goes through if it still needs some tweaking.

While you're tinkering with Emma can you please fix her floating attributes? I realize that it's by design but having to go from Templar to Tank every time she goes into her diamond form is murder to try to gear around, especially if you're using a hybrid build. And, since her sig is all mental, the only way you can not play a hybrid build is if you go full mental. And even then her dash makes the swap so you're back to square one. Can we please just leave her as a Templar and call it a day?

I gear my hybrid Emma with Intelligence and Durability. I know that it's kinda a mess those alternating stats but I like the way that this represent her diamond/telepath changes. About the dash, if they go to the "don't change her form to diamond form when we use it" it will destroy her survability in hard contents - because her armor only is active when in diamond form. Some people have suggested a psychic barrier like Psylocke's one but it doesn't go anywhere.

I go heavy on Durability and try to keep her Intelligence and Strength about even so that when I swap I don't see a big difference. I would prefer her simply be Durability/Intelligence. From a lore perspective, her diamond form does not grant her super strength so I don't see why she should have strength in the first place other than to make it easier for people who are going full melee to gear her.

I completely agree with you. They should make her mental form int/energy and her diamond form int/durability. It will be more accurate.

I actually don't think you agree. I'm proposing making her Durability/Intelligence regardless of what form she takes. Having her attributes shift between forms doesn't make any kind of sense and they don't do it for other "shifting" characters such as Vision. You're just trading one headache for a different headache.

I read too fast. And I still support this idea!

Yeah, I was in mid-post when I saw you're previous response as well. Hope I didn't sound combative.

Didn't sound. Actually I always gear edEmma with durability items for the extra defense and intelligence for the extra critical.

Posts: 960 Cosmic

@zWolfiez said:
There is a request to allow players to control a minion with needing the allocation, but I recall there being a lot of iterations from engineers before they found the current version that works. One thing to keep in mind is if we did get it to where minions could be out without the power slotted, their power would have to be lowered to compensate for the fact it is no longer taking up space on your bar and likely moved into the active part of the power.

It would be great if Emma's Controlled Amplification talent let you control a minion without the need for Psychic Domination on the hotbar. As it is, that talent only adds the Concealed buff to Inspire Minion, which was always redundant given that IM already taunts everything on screen. Minion damage (such that it is) wouldn't need to be affected because players would be choosing it over the greater damage of Mental Overload or the utility of Unlock Potential.

@MichaelMayhem

Pro FounderPosts: 1,001 Fantastic

@Psimitar said:

@zWolfiez said:
Psychic Domination can still be used for it's Damage Over Time effect, which I'm fixing so that it will properly synergize with Drain Psyche...thank you for letting me know about that, by the way. It also shouldn't swap your existing minion, so once you have one you are happy with you can still use it as a damaging layer. We can investigate other alternatives once this change goes through if it still needs some tweaking.

While you're tinkering with Emma can you please fix her floating attributes? I realize that it's by design but having to go from Templar to Tank every time she goes into her diamond form is murder to try to gear around, especially if you're using a hybrid build. And, since her sig is all mental, the only way you can not play a hybrid build is if you go full mental. And even then her dash makes the swap so you're back to square one. Can we please just leave her as a Templar and call it a day?

This 1000 times over. Nothing good happens mechanically in any respect from how her desired attributes change dynamically in combat. If there's a place for desired attributes to change, it should be done statically via a talent, but I think the best thing to do here really is just to leave her locked at Intelligence and Durability.

Posts: 4,045 Cosmic
edited October 6

@Psimitar said:

@Cavalcanti said:

@Psimitar said:

@zWolfiez said:
Psychic Domination can still be used for it's Damage Over Time effect, which I'm fixing so that it will properly synergize with Drain Psyche...thank you for letting me know about that, by the way. It also shouldn't swap your existing minion, so once you have one you are happy with you can still use it as a damaging layer. We can investigate other alternatives once this change goes through if it still needs some tweaking.

While you're tinkering with Emma can you please fix her floating attributes? I realize that it's by design but having to go from Templar to Tank every time she goes into her diamond form is murder to try to gear around, especially if you're using a hybrid build. And, since her sig is all mental, the only way you can not play a hybrid build is if you go full mental. And even then her dash makes the swap so you're back to square one. Can we please just leave her as a Templar and call it a day?

I gear my hybrid Emma with Intelligence and Durability. I know that it's kinda a mess those alternating stats but I like the way that this represent her diamond/telepath changes. About the dash, if they go to the "don't change her form to diamond form when we use it" it will destroy her survability in hard contents - because her armor only is active when in diamond form. Some people have suggested a psychic barrier like Psylocke's one but it doesn't go anywhere.

I go heavy on Durability and try to keep her Intelligence and Strength about even so that when I swap I don't see a big difference. I would prefer her simply be Durability/Intelligence. From a lore perspective, her diamond form does not grant her super strength so I don't see why she should have strength in the first place other than to make it easier for people who are going full melee to gear her.

Um, yes, it does in fact grant her super strength. I'm not exactly sure why you think it doesn't, she even took Colossus' place on the team as "the muscle" until his return in Astonishing.

Location GibraltarPosts: 2,951 Cosmic

@zWolfiez As promised, here's some recordings of the issues I'm reporting:

Psychic Domination

Drain Psyche's damage doesn't increase when the dummy is afflicted by Psychic Domination. Telepathic Torment increases its damage thanks to its Vulnerability component, and Drain's extra damage against targets of DoT powers. Astral Whip further increases Drain's damage through its additional Vulnerability, which scales with Torment's.

I've removed most of my gear to avoid the snap-shotting that affects Drain powers like Emma's Drain Psyche and Jean's Phoenix Drain (an issue I've reported before, but seemingly it wasn't addressed yet), and DoT powers.


Angelic Smite

  • No Talents selected

  • First activation takes 8 seconds to trigger the cooldown of the power (which is also 8 seconds).

  • Since Angelic Smite generates Heven's Wrath, it has 0 Heven's Wrath cost, and it's spammable until the cooldown triggers, it's possible to spam it indefinitely.

  • Mistress at Arms reduces Angelic Smite's cooldown to 6 seconds, but its first activation still sets a countdown of 8 seconds to AS's cooldown.

  • Soaring Huntress adds the Ribbon component I've mentioned before.

  • The first activation of Angelic Smite doesn't trigger the Ribbon component. Following activations do.

  • Thanks to the Ribbon component increasing total animation time, Angelic Smite per se doesn't generate Heven's Wrath fast enough to fill up the gauge. It's still pretty easy to gain Heven's Wrath in a few seconds, though, especially while engaging mobs.

The results are the same with only Soaring Huntress activated, and with one talent on each row activated. The root of Angelic Smite's bug is unrelated to talents.

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Askani'sonLocation Austin, TXPosts: 2,564 Cosmic

@Nootteryouknow said:

@Psimitar said:

@Cavalcanti said:

@Psimitar said:

@zWolfiez said:
Psychic Domination can still be used for it's Damage Over Time effect, which I'm fixing so that it will properly synergize with Drain Psyche...thank you for letting me know about that, by the way. It also shouldn't swap your existing minion, so once you have one you are happy with you can still use it as a damaging layer. We can investigate other alternatives once this change goes through if it still needs some tweaking.

While you're tinkering with Emma can you please fix her floating attributes? I realize that it's by design but having to go from Templar to Tank every time she goes into her diamond form is murder to try to gear around, especially if you're using a hybrid build. And, since her sig is all mental, the only way you can not play a hybrid build is if you go full mental. And even then her dash makes the swap so you're back to square one. Can we please just leave her as a Templar and call it a day?

I gear my hybrid Emma with Intelligence and Durability. I know that it's kinda a mess those alternating stats but I like the way that this represent her diamond/telepath changes. About the dash, if they go to the "don't change her form to diamond form when we use it" it will destroy her survability in hard contents - because her armor only is active when in diamond form. Some people have suggested a psychic barrier like Psylocke's one but it doesn't go anywhere.

I go heavy on Durability and try to keep her Intelligence and Strength about even so that when I swap I don't see a big difference. I would prefer her simply be Durability/Intelligence. From a lore perspective, her diamond form does not grant her super strength so I don't see why she should have strength in the first place other than to make it easier for people who are going full melee to gear her.

Um, yes, it does in fact grant her super strength. I'm not exactly sure why you think it doesn't, she even took Colossus' place on the team as "the muscle" until his return in Astonishing.

I'll go ahead and concede the point regarding Emma's strength in her diamond form. I typically try to pull my information from the comics themselves as opposed to relying on a fan-powered wiki and I didn't recall any instance where Emma displayed super strength that couldn't be chalked up to the ultra-density of her diamond form. But I'll admit that I'm a far cry from what you'd call an Emma Frost fan in the comics (quite the opposite).

But as far as the game is concerned, I don't think that players gain anything by having her primary attribute switch from Intelligence to Strength when she hot-swaps forms. I think Intelligence and Durability are the best and most accurate summation of her powers and should be left at that.

Posts: 4,045 Cosmic

@Psimitar said:

@Nootteryouknow said:

@Psimitar said:

@Cavalcanti said:

@Psimitar said:

@zWolfiez said:
Psychic Domination can still be used for it's Damage Over Time effect, which I'm fixing so that it will properly synergize with Drain Psyche...thank you for letting me know about that, by the way. It also shouldn't swap your existing minion, so once you have one you are happy with you can still use it as a damaging layer. We can investigate other alternatives once this change goes through if it still needs some tweaking.

While you're tinkering with Emma can you please fix her floating attributes? I realize that it's by design but having to go from Templar to Tank every time she goes into her diamond form is murder to try to gear around, especially if you're using a hybrid build. And, since her sig is all mental, the only way you can not play a hybrid build is if you go full mental. And even then her dash makes the swap so you're back to square one. Can we please just leave her as a Templar and call it a day?

I gear my hybrid Emma with Intelligence and Durability. I know that it's kinda a mess those alternating stats but I like the way that this represent her diamond/telepath changes. About the dash, if they go to the "don't change her form to diamond form when we use it" it will destroy her survability in hard contents - because her armor only is active when in diamond form. Some people have suggested a psychic barrier like Psylocke's one but it doesn't go anywhere.

I go heavy on Durability and try to keep her Intelligence and Strength about even so that when I swap I don't see a big difference. I would prefer her simply be Durability/Intelligence. From a lore perspective, her diamond form does not grant her super strength so I don't see why she should have strength in the first place other than to make it easier for people who are going full melee to gear her.

Um, yes, it does in fact grant her super strength. I'm not exactly sure why you think it doesn't, she even took Colossus' place on the team as "the muscle" until his return in Astonishing.

I'll go ahead and concede the point regarding Emma's strength in her diamond form. I typically try to pull my information from the comics themselves as opposed to relying on a fan-powered wiki and I didn't recall any instance where Emma displayed super strength that couldn't be chalked up to the ultra-density of her diamond form. But I'll admit that I'm a far cry from what you'd call an Emma Frost fan in the comics (quite the opposite).

But as far as the game is concerned, I don't think that players gain anything by having her primary attribute switch from Intelligence to Strength when she hot-swaps forms. I think Intelligence and Durability are the best and most accurate summation of her powers and should be left at that.

All of the power grids in the wiki are sourced to the latest Handbook of the Marvel Universe if they're available. BUt Emma's power works just like Piotr's, biggest difference is he does strength training even in base form, and she just works to stay in shape.

I will give you that the trait swapping does her no good, as far as I'm concerned she only has one attribute.

GazillionLocation Behind the CurtainPosts: 246 Staff

@rbmaia

I've fixed the Psychic Domination/Drain Psyche issue. The Angelic Smite one is not at all what I was expecting, and I'm going to need to dig around to see why you are able to get into that state. It's almost as though the game thinks you have the Heven's Wrath effect all the time which shouldn't be happening. And by "I'm going to dig around" I mean "I'm going to have QA see if they can get it to happen."

Location GibraltarPosts: 2,951 Cosmic

@zWolfiez said:
@rbmaia

I've fixed the Psychic Domination/Drain Psyche issue. The Angelic Smite one is not at all what I was expecting, and I'm going to need to dig around to see why you are able to get into that state. It's almost as though the game thinks you have the Heven's Wrath effect all the time which shouldn't be happening. And by "I'm going to dig around" I mean "I'm going to have QA see if they can get it to happen."

Appreciate it. Let me know if there are any further details I can provide to help.

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GazillionLocation Behind the CurtainPosts: 246 Staff

Just for my own sanity...has anyone else seen this happen? I've tried recreating the bug @rbmaia saw with Angelic Smite and it works fine for me. And for some other people. So my best guess is that you've managed to execute some steps in some way to break it, which is rare but does happen. I'm sending it to the smart people to look into, but more players means more data we can compare to.

Location GibraltarPosts: 2,951 Cosmic

@zWolfiez said:
Just for my own sanity...has anyone else seen this happen? I've tried recreating the bug @rbmaia saw with Angelic Smite and it works fine for me. And for some other people. So my best guess is that you've managed to execute some steps in some way to break it, which is rare but does happen. I'm sending it to the smart people to look into, but more players means more data we can compare to.

I've removed infinity points, gear, hero synergy, costume, artifacts, talents, other powers from the action bar and relogged, testing the power on each step. Still bugged.

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Location Joliet, Il Posts: 2,179 Fantastic

@rbmaia said:
...Jean's Phoenix Drain (an issue I've reported before, but seemingly it wasn't addressed yet)...

zWolfiez Just responded abouth fixing this here.

True BelieverPosts: 2,906 Cosmic

@zWolfiez said:
Just for my own sanity...has anyone else seen this happen? I've tried recreating the bug @rbmaia saw with Angelic Smite and it works fine for me. And for some other people. So my best guess is that you've managed to execute some steps in some way to break it, which is rare but does happen. I'm sending it to the smart people to look into, but more players means more data we can compare to.

You have to understand there are some bugs you WILL NOT SEE on the dev servers that exist on live. Many moons ago there was a bug I complained about for MONTHS and every time the bug guy was like its fine there is no issue. I do this on the dev environment and things are fine but once he actually got on the live version to test he found that it wasn't fine. Somehow things you guys showed as fixed or not an issue on your internal builds were NOT actually getting migrated to the live version. Not saying that's the issue atm but you can NOT just look at the internal builds and call things fine. Live and internal aren't the same versions and just cause you cant see it on your dev builds doesn't mean its not an issue on our live build. Hope you don't take this the wrong way either. :)

Location In your HeartPosts: 33 Mighty

I used to have this bug but after prestiging my Angela, it got removed. I will have to test it again. I haven't used her in awhile

Posts: 67 Mighty

Angela's my main main, but I don't know what the bug is here.

If the OP could post a video, it would probably help.

Location GibraltarPosts: 2,951 Cosmic

@djarb said:
Angela's my main main, but I don't know what the bug is here.

If the OP could post a video, it would probably help.

https://forums.marvelheroes.com/discussion/comment/4298096#Comment_4298096

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Posts: 67 Mighty

@rbmaia said:

@djarb said:
Angela's my main main, but I don't know what the bug is here.

If the OP could post a video, it would probably help.

https://forums.marvelheroes.com/discussion/comment/4298096#Comment_4298096

Well, that's definitely not the behavior I see. And yeah, totally a bug.

Location GibraltarPosts: 2,951 Cosmic

@zWolfiez said:
The thing is that we actually did manage to get the bug to happen when we loaded up a copy of @rbmaia account (Yeah, we can do that), but not on any internal testing, including loading up some dev's live accounts. So we do know that it is legitimate, but there is no real clean way reproduce how it happened...making it harder to track down a solution.

That's why I was asking if anyone else has seen the same issue so we might be able to find some similarities between multiple accounts and pinpoint the exact cause.

We do have engineering looking into it, but any additional information players can provide could speed up the process.

This is really weird, cause the issue definitely isn't exclusive to my account. @RDroid reported this bug before, and we had discussed it extensively (well, mostly me whining about not being able to use it, and him telling me to shut up and exploit it):

https://forums.marvelheroes.com/discussion/comment/4075785#Comment_4075785

There's a similar report on Reddit as well, and while the video is gone, I'm pretty sure that it was about Angelic Smite:

https://www.reddit.com/r/marvelheroes/comments/5v8ew9/angela_loves_her_pogo_stick/

Also, remember that there was some commotion over Angelic Smite on Test Center during her rework, shortly after the BUE. The first incarnation of the Soaring Huntress talent added an extra activation to Angelic Smite, but the Ribbon attack was gone and a lot of people (myself included) were upset over it. So the devs changed Soaring Huntress to add the Ribbon component instead of an extra Sword attack, and this bug might have been born in the transition.

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