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Hero Ladder Rankings This Thread is obsolete. See new thread.

MutatedPosts: 136 Incredible

My 2 cents.

I've used this list extensively since it started on what hero I could possibly look at leveling next. My concern is this trend of providing input based on a WELL/top geared hero clear in T4.

I personally will want to level cap a toon, having fun while doing it and not struggling due to some issue with the hero. I also may want to do T4s, but could be paired. Solo will come with time and effort.

It was my impression this list was based on a 50 - 60 level hero (ish). Not top notch geared?

As an example, I love my Wolvie but know I would have some serious issues with red T4s if I didn't have my high level bone claws. It changes how I play and perceive him as a hero.

Location Who needs PvP when we have forums?Posts: 5,038 Cosmic
edited October 2013

@Exqzr said:
Interesting you mention a comparison in this situation.

Many years ago I published guides for Fantasy Baseball Drafts, wherein, I formulated a final score for every player based on their stats. It was very popular. This thread is a bit of nostalgia for me as it brings me back to those days a little.

Yeah, but the thing is leaning so hard on numerical rankings can lead to things like people taking Trout (not to be confused with @miketrout )first overall when there's no way I'd choose him over Miggy with the relative weaknesses at CI league wide, not to mention 3B eligibility. Much like Durant/Lebron it's not really a right/wrong situation, they are so close that personal preference and approach dictates their real value.

Maybe just a small paragraph reminding people that the relative performance tiers matter more in a real world scenario than the specific rankings.

Or maybe people's love of lists is just so intense that this is more fun for them. After all there's a reason that more people click a link labeled "Top 10 Vacation Spots" than they do a link labeled "Top Vacation Spots" by such a huge factor.

My friend is an eloquent speaker. He made three profound arguments while I excused myself from the room. I always leave when the talk gets philosophical.

Posts: 954 Amazing

Changes made to Hawkeye based on feedback from @sputt and @azndudeison

@Sputt said:
Int: Fast-paced action. Squishy, but awesome. Depending on the situation Hawkeye will either be a top 5 hero, or a bottom 5. That makes him hard to rank. I began writing this being sure I'd give him a much higher score than I did, but I realized as I began breaking the score categories down that he's just too situational to score higher. If you want the potential to show off and do things other players thought was impossible with a character, Hawkeye is your guy. If you want something akin to balance or even gameplay, Hawkeye is not it.

Posts: 954 Amazing

The list has actually trended slightly to rank heroes who require excellent gear slightly lower.

As well, it takes into account early and mid game, party help, fun factor and other things that make the list viable to all players at all levels.

It is an indication of how a Hero will do from start to finish, the pros and cons and the overall community "Feel" on a Hero's current impact on the game.

Its a gigantic undertaking to be sure, but with 2000 odd comments, I think we are getting pretty close to a list that 90%+ of readers/contributors are comfortable with.

@Kiryy said:
My 2 cents.

I've used this list extensively since it started on what hero I could possibly look at leveling next. My concern is this trend of providing input based on a WELL/top geared hero clear in T4.

I personally will want to level cap a toon, having fun while doing it and not struggling due to some issue with the hero. I also may want to do T4s, but could be paired. Solo will come with time and effort.

It was my impression this list was based on a 50 - 60 level hero (ish). Not top notch geared?

As an example, I love my Wolvie but know I would have some serious issues with red T4s if I didn't have my high level bone claws. It changes how I play and perceive him as a hero.

Posts: 412 Amazing

@HarryTasker said:
Cable only has to refresh TKS 3 times a minute. And if we're going to nitpick he can bodyslide which completely avoids damage making it better than negation, regen, and absorb.

Im not nitpicking im providing cold hard facts , which is what this hero ranking thread is about . Also im using Ziggurat so theres a free bodyslide , though im pretty sure you just threw that out there since you and i both know thats not really mitigation

Posts: 359 Amazing

@Exqzr Like the new thread! I suggest give Jean -2 on design (non-phoenix is kinda unplayable and its still very far from what the Jean fans want) and +2 on party. Her cc is great, slowing, pushing, pulling the mobs is very benefical to the team especially in x-def, not talking about her crit aura, fantastic tanking skills and resurrection defending via Kinetic Wave projectile deflect.

Keep up the good work!

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True BelieverPosts: 38 Mighty
edited October 2013

I love the more detailed rankings :-D

Playing the Thing at the moment, lvl 1-27, story mode, patches 1.31-current. He is extremly fun in the low levels. Utterly unkillable (used 3 medkits so far), damage (with slightly twinked gear) is more than good enough to oneshot trashmobs, and even bosses melt quickly. But most of all, he is FUN! Solid ranged attack in Directed Shockwave from lvl 1, with fun graphics. Put on a Shocker medal that you upgrade along the way, add stuff that deals damage to attackers and enjoy the show!

So, at least from my point of view, maybe a 3/3 in early game? However, design isn't that good IMO. You need to respec occassionally, since most of the early melee powers become obsolete quickly now that synergies are gone.

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Posts: 954 Amazing

Awesome analysis of Colossus.

@Kerch said:
Colossus:
Design 10/20
Stability 1/5
Ease 4/5
Gear 4/5
Party 4/6
Early 2/3
Mid 1/3
Late 2/6
DPS 8/15
AOE 4/10
CC 4/10
Def 14/20
Int 5/10

Design: The word that best describes Colossus' design is "spartan". While he's not lacking many necessities (lack of passive tenacity is problematic), much of his tree design is redundant, counter-intuitive, and uninspired. The dearth of any attractive skills in his Bold Comrade tree is common knowledge, but nearly all of his passive skills are equally unimpressive. Powers that might be considered defining have been co-opted by other heroes (primarily Emma), and several others are strictly worse versions of other hero's powers. Colossus currently has one good skill: Deflective Armor. Every other power is either under-tuned, redundant, or poorly designed.

Stability: Colossus performance varies wildly in different game modes. This is largely due to his Armor mechanic. Because it does not scale, the amount damage it prevents doesn't increase as enemy damage does. Colossus will roll over Green Terminals and take literally zero damage, but in more difficult content will struggle to keep up with other heroes. This is most apparent in X-Defense, where anything past wave 8 or so becomes a chore.

Ease: Colossus is fairly simple. Run up to things and punch them till they die or you do. The only thing keeping this from a 5/5 is his Armor mechanic. Having an extra resource means you have one extra thing to manage. And by "manage", I mean "watch and be unable to affect in any meaningful way."

Gear: Gearing Colossus isn't difficult. Due to the lack of any passive crit or fast/multi-hit attacks, many of the more sought-after items in the game aren't very good for Colossus. Items with procs or crit-derived stats (crit damage and brutal strike) are especially ineffective for Colossus, as he's unlikely to have more than 15%'ish crit at level 60. Instead, most Colossus need to gear defensively, to compensate for his relatively poor innate defenses.

Party: Colossus' value to a party is underrated. Merely providing an aura and spamming a taunt every 3 seconds provides some level of benefit to a group, while better and more experienced players can use those tools in a more effective way. Poor damage hurts this score.

Early: Would be 3/3, but lack of any travel power until level 26 hurts here. Early level Colossus is indestructible.

Mid: Kind of falls off here. Poor damage scaling causes leveling speed to crawl.

Late: More of the same. Hard to kill up through level 60, but poor damage.

DPS: Hard to qualify, so I left it the same as your score. For some perspective, I have a fairly well geared level 60 Colossus. Using Crushing Smite (his best dps skill), my Colossus does around 19k dps. If I were to abandon all pretense of durability, I could push that to the 20-21k range. Where does that rank overall? I have no real idea. I do know he's lower than my other heroes of similar level.

AOE: Colossus has two choices- Spinning Fist and Demolition Stomp (Steel Splash doesn't exist, and you cannot convince me otherwise). Not a lot to say. They'll hit more than one target at a time. Spinning Fist has mobility, but is overshadowed by Emma's Diamond Whirlwind (a point of contention among Colossus players).

CC: Colossus' only meaningful source of CC is the knockdown effect of Demolition Stomp. It isn't especially useful, as the duration does not scale with invested points. The knockdown on Crushing Smite isn't meaningful, as the things you'll hit with smite are resilient to the effect.

Defenses: Almost strictly worse than someone like Thing (overall, Colossus is a largely worse version of Thing). As far as I can tell, Colossus' defenses are the worst out of every "heavy armor" hero in the game.

Intangibles: Colossus has pretty cool costumes. So there's that. Colossus appears to be one of the least popular heroes in the game (if you measure by forum activity). How much of this is related to his current state is up for debate. Compounding this issue is that Colossus is a hero without any bells or whistles. There's no major draw to the hero anymore. Initially, Colossus was appealing because it was an opportunity to play like a D2 Whirlwind Barbarian. Now that this ability has been handed out to other heroes, there's no real incentive to play Colossus over anyone else. He's a hero without any real outstanding feature. Playable, but not exceptional at anything. There's also the added benefit of being the only hero (as of 1.31) with only one unique.

Location FrancePosts: 869 Amazing
edited October 2013

@Exqzr said:

1. Cable (92)

Category Scores (Oct 11th)
Design 17/20
Stab 3/3
Ease 1/5
Gear 1/5
Party 5/5
Early 1/3
Mid 2/3
Late 6/6
DPS 14/15
AOE 7/10
CC 5/10
Def 19/20
Int 9/10

17 + 3 + 1 + 1 + 5 + 1 + 2 + 6 + 14 + 7 + 5 + 19 + 9 = ... wait for it... 90

2. Emma Frost (92)

This one is okay

3. Jean Grey (91)

Category Scores (Oct 11th)
Design 15/20
Stab 2/3
Ease 4/5
Gear 3/5
Party 2/5
Early 3/3
Mid 3/3
Late 6/6
DPS 10/15
AOE 10/10
CC 10/10
Def 17/20
Int 8/10

Sum is... 93

I didn't check them all, but added a randomly picked extra char (dd) to check if it might have come from something odd, which doesn't seem to be the case.

Cablemma ? Ha ! Pow('nd)er incarnate for you, now !
(sorry to point this, esp since i'm really not a Jean gameplay fan, but hey, if you use math, well...)

Actually, this does point how great a char Cable is, considering his "flaws" are early game, gearing, and skill to play him, so if you take those out, he is MUCH better than the two ranked above him

I really LOVE this topic idea (apart from the contest of waffles it sometimes becomes) so don't take this as an attack, it really isn't that, at all.

Keep up the good work, Exqzr and all that participate

Location FrancePosts: 869 Amazing
edited October 2013

@FelipeBatista said:
Firstly congratulations for the topic.

But in my opinion, honestly, this ranking does not show exactly the true ...

It has great influence of the participating members, everyone always want the fish to yourself.

That's where Exzqr is really great, he takes all those "data" people bring in and converts them as best as he can / feels.
Before numbers were out, he just had to emphasize / reduce passion according to words people used, which made it pretty subjective (or rather might give it the FEEL of being subjective).
With numbers for different criteria out, people have a base to discuss / debate / pull the blanket to any char, but others will have the same base to counter.
Seems to me we have a really solid tool now !

Make mine Hero Ladder Ranking ! - and Marvel, too

Posts: 954 Amazing

@Barlimann

Thanks for the catch, I do the math in my head, as you can probably tell...

That said, Cable has been adjusted for now, as I feel his category scores are good.

Jean's total score was correct, but I forgot to adjust her design and intangibles as I had agreed with a previous post regarding her, so I changed those scores and left her total score the same.

@Barlimann said:
Keep up the good work, Exqzr and all that participate

Posts: 954 Amazing

@FelipeBatista said:
Firstly congratulations for the topic.

But in my opinion, honestly, this ranking does not show exactly the true ...

It has great influence of the participating members, everyone always want the fish to yourself.

So where do you feel Cable should be Ranked?

True BelieverLocation Las VegasPosts: 706 Amazing

@Exqzr said:
So where do you feel Cable should be Ranked?

We kinda need to get off Cable. Too much of hero discussion has been about cable. We all know him well by now. Your disclaimers for him are perfect in that he takes much time to master. As long as your scores reflect his learning curve and how bad the character is if not played correctly, I think its best to move onto the next hero instead of dwelling on him.

Lets not turn this into another 20 pages of everyone arguing over how good Cable is. To make this a top notch thread, its best we discuss all the heroes.

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Location Charlize Theron's dreamsPosts: 6,523 Cosmic

@conviction said:

Hm..

Cable.

Posts: 954 Amazing

I don't disagree,

But I noted that poster has a lvl 60 cable and I wanted to engage him.

@conviction said:

Posts: 253 Amazing

Just a quick note on Black Widow, the 1.32 patch finally fixed Master of Munitions and a bug where some skills weren’t getting bonus damage from Strength/Fighting costume core affixes. Aside from the flat damage boost from the costume core bug fix, she can use her spirit spenders much more now that MoM is working.

I don’t think this is enough to give her a huge boost in overall rating, but I think it’s pretty safe to give her at least another point in dps (making it 12/15).

To really move up she needs help in the defensive department, but at least something positive is starting to happen with her.

Posts: 954 Amazing

I love HT,

I keep him as high as I can. And you may have noted he had the highest "Design" score of anyone.

More to your post, Cable is now 3rd as per his point total.

Thanks for the insight, I hope to see more :)

Posts: 422 Amazing

I think it's only a matter of time until Iron Man overtakes Thor. I could argue for additional points in a few areas, but the most clear one is early game. It's as fun and breezy as it gets. 3/3

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