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Hero Ladder Rankings This Thread is obsolete. See new thread.

Location Marvel Heroes OmegaPosts: 780 Amazing

@Exqzr ... Awesome thread man!!! Keep up the AMAZING work!!

Posts: 510 Amazing

@Exqzr, the numbers seem right.

A few (maybe more than a few) comments on the new list:

  • Replace Farm with Gear. I think that at first glance you can easily mistake "farm for gear" for "ease to farm content".

  • I would separate "Party Usefulness" from the other Intagibles. It isn't really related to the rest and it is pretty easy to rate on its own, could maybe have a weight between 3-5.

  • Cable can get more than 6/10 AOE with VG now, the thing is ridiculous without a cooldown and considering you don't use another spirit spender. However i would get is CC down to 5, he isn't that good.

  • I would easily give Jean 3/3 in early game. Lethargy just one-shotted everything for me.

  • Human Torch should have higher AoE, 9/10 maybe. His defense, however, needs to be pulled down 2-3 points.

  • Deadpool's Intagibles should be 15/15. He is the definition of everything you stated in that category (even the party usefulness).

  • Thing's DPS needs to go a bit down. He shouldn't ever be higher than Storm.

  • Hawkeye is a good example of why you should separate party and the rest of the intagibles. On party usefulness, he is 3/3 or 5/5. In the rest, he is really lackluster.

Next hype: Magneto (60/400 splinters)

WakandanPosts: 250 Amazing

Wait iron man has a 12/15 DPS? I was lead to believe his single target damage was complete crud?

Can;t say im complaining, gonna try him come 1.32's release.

Location USAPosts: 729 Amazing
edited October 2013

@Exqzr said:

Am I crazy? Or do your itemized rankings add up to 115 not 100?

Edit: Nevermind, Intangibles is a bonus.

Posts: 577 Amazing
edited October 2013

@HarryTasker said:
However, Scarlet Witch is the real queen of X-Defense.

Ironman has better defense his base defense is almost as much as cable with that tk shield on and has that force shield that absorbs 50% damage but its true that cable has better defensive options

Posts: 333 Amazing
edited October 2013

Couldn't definitely agree with AoE on Black Panther.
6/10 on AoE?! With only one "useful" AoE (Vibranium trap, which become good only with unique boots)?!

For comparison Ms. Marvel, that has 5/10 has one good (Crashdown strike), one probably not bad (stellar flare - 200% def aura) and one good (when you are spec in) not "AoE" (Photonic devastation), but count like Area.

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cml
True BelieverPosts: 497 Amazing
edited October 2013

Hulk's aoe a 5/10? Are you serious? He deserves at least an 8 just because of EL alone. Throw in MR and TR (both are considered aoe attacks in some regards), GS and his dots from DM which procs on both his leaps including EL and I honestly don't see how all of that adds up to a 5/10.

Posts: 93 Mighty

@cml said:
Hulk's aoe a 5/10? Are you serious? He deserves at least an 8 just because of EL alone. Throw in MR and TR (both are considered aoe attacks in some regards), GS and his dots from DM which procs on both his leaps including EL and I honestly don't see how all of that adds up to a 5/10.

Seriously, Hulk's aoe is a joke. 5/10 totally deserves

Posts: 109 Incredible

I have been watching this threads progression since I started, and it was very helpful for me in the beginning. I think this is a wonderful tool for the community.

I do however disagree with several rankings. The most notable is how Captain has been ranked for about a month. This may be due to lack of input from Captain players, and I can fault myself partially for that. I'd personally rank his Defense at 20. And his late game at at the very least a 2. I think his overall position as a result, would be more accurate as well then.

The reasons I say this are simple. X Defense Wave 30+. In an environment where the most intense durability is desired in your heroes, you can clearly see which ones have the best durability and defenses. We discuss this regularly in my guild. I also have the benefit of debating with some very geared, and knowledgeable Emma players (Emma is listed as having a 20 for Defense on your list). We regularly draw the same conclusion ... Captain is better.

My current Captain has 96% Projectile Deflection, 83% damage reduction with Quick Block active (which is like ...ALWAYS), 18000+ health (With a Madam Hydra Medallion equipped that grants no + health), 35% dodge, and grant my party 2200+ damage just by being alive (Madam Hydra Medallion+Rank 38 Aggressive shout). My rank of Heroic Charge grants me a 1900 damage absorbing shield and costs so little spirit that it's active practically all the time. Quick Block also gives Captain the ability to completely negate practically any single incoming damage hit every 2 seconds. A prime component to the reason he is the most durable Hero in the game at the moment.

Example - Mega Sentinel Wave 35+ in X Defense is practically un-tankable in Melee range by pretty much any hero EXCEPT Captain America. Who takes zero damage because his quick block can block every single attack.

Did I also forget to mention how utterly AMAZING his ultimate is? This is a link to a thread in the Captain forums in which @Wyld has kindly shared his rank 20 Captain America Ultimate with the rest of us.
https://forums.marvelheroes.com/discussion/28666/captain-america-ulti-at-rank-20#latest

If you read this whole post, thanks for the time. I hope I have shared some needed information with you all.

Posts: 412 Amazing

No one questioned Captains survivability , he lacks in pretty much everything else .

Posts: 109 Incredible

@Makulu said:

No one questioned Captains survivability , he lacks in pretty much everything else .

I agree that no one has complained, I'm specifically referring to his numbered stat allocations on the list. In relation to Emma who gets a 4/4 late game, and a 20/20 for Defense.

His Ranks for Defense 17/20, and 1/4 late game are not accurate. His overall placement on the list at 20th (recently has been as low as 23rd) is also way off base.

This also might be the reason people have such a hard time in X Def. They need to start bringing a Captain.

Location In ShowerPosts: 215 Amazing
edited October 2013

@Exqzr I LOVE the new change to the rating system. Thank you for your hard-work this is a great and tedious thread you have kept up with. I would express how fantastic you've been but I'm sure you already know.

Well referring to two posters in the previous thread.

One Hawkeye player said he runs proc-based (which I do too but I'll stop when I find the body chest unique.) The recent addition of uniques and reduction of wave of arrows's energy costs have made WoA too good to pass up (if compared to Hawkeye's other options).

A non-Hawkeye player expressed why Hawkeye isn't at the bottom of the list? Well @Sputt posted a great video of T4 Red Doctor Doom in the Hawkeye sub-forums that shows why he isn't:

@Sputt said:

Admittingly, Sputt has excellent gear and he gotten lucky with dodge procs and the boss's affixes in that run. However, even if he didn't get "lucky", the time wouldn't have been much longer.

Design 15/20 Fair

Stab 4/5 I'd bump this to a 5. I think the Hawkeye Sub-Forumers would agree with me that he's received unnoticeable changes since 1.2. A dev has stated (something along the lines of) that HE is in line for changes but until it's his time on the chopping block expect ~0 changes.

Ease 4/5 Fair

Farm 4/5 This would be a fair score pre-1.2 but the removal of enemy's def in exchange for increased health and the addition of uniques/insignias/relics has increase his gear reliance. I would drop him to a ~2.

Early 1/3 Fair

Mid 1/3 Fair

Late 2/4 My "feels" want to give him a 3 but a lot of newcomer Hawkeyes who haven't found good gear complain in the HE sub-forums, so 2 is a fair score

DPS 13/15 Fair

AOE 5/10 Fair. Looking at who's at 5 and who's at 6 I think bumping him to 6 is acceptable for now.

CC 6/10 I'm not sure how numbers were assigned for this category but I've never needed more than a Nullifier Arrow(removes some AOE based skills) + Shrieking Arrow(taunt/works as a target). For now, I'll say fair.

Def 10/20 Fair.

Int 10/15 Fair.

P.S. there's some inconsistencies in your thread. Like every STAB score is outta 5 but first post says (3). Says outta 100 score rating but everything seems to be outta ~115-120. Some Int scores outta 10 some outta 15. I'm not suer if these were on purpose to give you some Extra Credit for some characters to get their 100 but uhm yah.

Free Characters: Hawkeye (Starter) - 30 (1st prestige), Daredevil (Story) - 1, Thing (Story) - 1, Jean Grey (Rando) - 59, Storm (Rando) - 1

Free Costumes: Hawkeye Avengers Movie, Hawkeye Modern, Jean Grey Black Queen

Free Pets: Old Lace, H.E.R.B.I.E. (From FC)

True BelieverLocation At the heart of the cosmosPosts: 166 Incredible

This list is constantly mentioned as a point-of-reference all around Marvel Heroes broadcasts. Thanks to all participants for an awesome job well done. I'm sharing the link whenever I'm live and it always generates a thoughtful discussion. I think it also highlights who should be next in line for design reviews, which is a big help to the community. I thought about making a tier list just based on fun factor alone, but this list trumps 'em all!

Location Who needs PvP when we have forums?Posts: 5,038 Cosmic

@Exqz , something I was thinking about as I prepare for fantasy basketball drafts is that you might want to de-emphasize the hard numerical overall rankings of heroes and instead emphasize a tiered rating system. Having tiers of comparably powerful heroes would probably be more useful than arguments about who is at 10 and who is at 11. It would also help avoid some of the more facile arguments like Cable vs Emma. Considering how much of hero evaluation is based on player preference, player skill, and even luck with drops it would be more valuable to have them organized by who is best, who is great, who is really good, who is just good, etc. etc.

Emma versus Cable is like arguing Lebron versus Durant for the number one overall pick. Neither one is a a clear cut #1, but one of them is definitely going to be the number one pick based on how the person picking first likes to build their team. The only "right" answer is that they will be the first two off the board, within that scenario it's personal preference.

My friend is an eloquent speaker. He made three profound arguments while I excused myself from the room. I always leave when the talk gets philosophical.

Posts: 412 Amazing

@AznDudeIsOn said:

I knew what Hawkeye was capable of and always said hes rated low , most of the time simply because people dislike him as a hero . 

That being said Hulkbuster plays a huge role and im yet to find it . Then i can eventually switch from my proc build to a straight up damage build .
Posts: 954 Amazing

Hey Folks,

Lots and Lots of changes today, I wont go over them all ~ yours to discover :).

If you made a comment and you feel I missed it, please feel free to send me a personal note.

Thanks and keep up the great comments, list can not exist without your input.

True BelieverPosts: 1,109 Fantastic

@Exqzr said:
Hey Folks,

Lots and Lots of changes today, I wont go over them all ~ yours to discover :).

Looks like you set Cable's early game to "1/3".

Any chance of it being a 0? ;)

(just kidding)

Proud member of KillsTheMarvelUniverse

xxxxxxxxxx

COSMIC-LVL60: Black Panther / Spider-man / X-23 P5-LVL60: Colossus / Jean Grey / Loki / Nova / Scarlet Witch / Venom / Vision P4-LVL60: Captain America / Daredevil / Deadpool / Juggernaut P3-LVL60: Hulk / Iron Man / Nightcrawler / Squirrel Girl / Wolverine P2-LVL60: Black Widow / Luke Cage / Storm / Thor P1-LVL60: Black Cat / Blade / Cyclops / Doctor Strange / Doctor Doom / Gambit / Hawkeye / Human Torch / Moon Knight / Captain Marvel / Psylocke / Punisher / Rocket Raccoon / Silver Surfer / Thing P0-LVL60: Ant-Man / Cable / Elektra / Emma Frost / Ghost Rider / Green Goblin / Iceman / Invisible Woman / Iron Fist / Kitty Pryde / Magik / Magneto / Mr. Fantastic / Rogue / She-Hulk / Star-Lord / Taskmaster / Ultron / War Machine / Winter Soldier

xxxxxxxxxx

P0:
| 60s: 58 (100%) P1: 60s: 38 (100%) P2: 60s: 23 (100%) P3: 60s: 19 (100%) P4: 60s: 14 (100%) P5: 60s: 10 (100%) COSMIC: 60s: 3 (100%)

OVERALL: [ 58 CHARACTERS / 9,900 TOTAL LEVELS / AVG. LEVEL OF P2—LVL50.7]

Posts: 271 Amazing

The way it stands for me. Emma does my Red T4 runs and Cable does my Green T4 runs. Keeps me happy.

Posts: 954 Amazing

Interesting you mention a comparison in this situation.

Many years ago I published guides for Fantasy Baseball Drafts, wherein, I formulated a final score for every player based on their stats. It was very popular. This thread is a bit of nostalgia for me as it brings me back to those days a little.

I thought a very long time about how to attack the issue of Category rankings and total Hero Score. I realize the net result is extremely subjective and this calls into question the Objective validity of the ladder.

But, if we consider the power of "consensus", it's an unbelievably strong indicator of value in a subjective situation.

So for example if 60% of people subjectively feel that Cable is stronger than Emma but they can not necessarily explain why in a numerical sense, it is probably then true that Cable is in fact stronger than Emma and it is my job to figure out how the consensus translates into numbers or to at least try to show in an objective a way as possible why the consensus is is holding true or proving false.

The objective analysis then provides either a confirmation of the consensus or provides additional data for the community to consider and potentially change their views.

It is always interesting to delve into the ebb and flow of popular opinion. For example, we know that the Republicans are at a 24% approval rating right now. We can use that to predict how they would do in an election were it held today. We also know that this could change tomorrow.

Similarly with Emma/Cable when I called for debate on who should be first, it was clear more people sided with Cable over Emma, but as soon as I put Cable on top, the complaints started coming in quickly.

In short the numerical values provide an easy to understand and argue baseline for even more accuracy over time with the Ladder. Time consuming? Yes. Fun? Most of the time :)

@TracerBullet said:
Exqz , something I was thinking about as I prepare for fantasy basketball drafts is that you might want to de-emphasize the hard numerical overall rankings of heroes and instead emphasize a tiered rating system. Having tiers of comparably powerful heroes would probably be more useful than arguments about who is at 10 and who is at 11. It would also help avoid some of the more facile arguments like Cable vs Emma. Considering how much of hero evaluation is based on player preference, player skill, and even luck with drops it would be more valuable to have them organized by who is best, who is great, who is really good, who is just good, etc. etc.

Emma versus Cable is like arguing Lebron versus Durant for the number one overall pick. Neither one is a a clear cut #1, but one of them is definitely going to be the number one pick based on how the person picking first likes to build their team. The only "right" answer is that they will be the first two off the board, within that scenario it's personal preference.

Location Charlize Theron's dreamsPosts: 6,523 Cosmic

@Makulu said:

How does Cable have better mitigation and defensive options ? Iron-Man with Shield up has as much armor as Cable with Telekinetic Shield , 3590 damage absorb and 50 % damage negated . Cable has projectile deflection which i wouldnt really need on IM since i can just tank them and some passive dodge which is not really that impressive at this point in the game .

As Cable you need to keep refreshing your shields as IM you have one shield that pretty much stays on the whole time with Adaptive Defenses .

So its pretty much IM with damage absorb , 50 % damage negated , shield capacity regen , health regen and spirit regen vs Cable with dodge and projectile deflection .

Agree on SW .

Cable only has to refresh TKS 3 times a minute. And if we're going to nitpick he can bodyslide which completely avoids damage making it better than negation, regen, and absorb.

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