NEWS FEB 23, 2014
Hi Everyone, I am starting a new thread and reconstructing the list.
See you all there.
2.0 Current Heroes are now ranked in all modes with Red terminal clears (not just boss rush)/X defense and MM being the primary means of evaluating. For 2.0 I am removing the Trend Score in favour of an "indicator" a +/- next to the score to suggest the Trend. I am also removing the Gaz Score as I will be adjusting downwards the list as a whole and this score would likely go down, even though they are working hard to make improvements.
List is Currently "Stable". Several Heroes have already moved around quite a bit. I have also been much less forgving with the Intangibles score which has the effect of increasing the difference between the have and have nots.
Ties are now resolved with Power Score
Added November 5th:
For anyone interested an End Game Tier List can now be found in post #6. I have set it up as an Alpha Reference
Everyone can contribute I have set up the categories so that any player of any level can add commentary that will have an impact on the hero’s total score. In this way the ladder is not "elitist" and only of value to high level players. It is now and shall forever be accessible and relevant to all players at all stages.
The “Ranking List” can be found in the following few posts and is separated by tiers.
Please take a moment before skipping down there to read these notes.** I apologize for the length, but it is important to understand the context behind the rankings. This will help in offering feedback and making a case on any particular hero; if you feel they are ranked too high or too low.
Each hero is given a “Total Point” score, which is added together from all of the values in the “Category Ratings” (out of 100). Heroes are then placed in the ladder based on this score and Divided into Tiers as follows:
Category Scores Ratings
Found at bottom of each hero. The ratings are used to generate a total score, which in turn places the hero in the rankings. The category score ratings (other than "Intangibles" - which is a bonus for helping the average score and "Trend" which is an adjustment) for a total of up to 100 points (as iterated above). The number in brackets is the maximum point value that can be obtained from this particular category. I have added a date to both the write up and category scores, so anyone can see when the last update was made to either.
Design (20): This point value represents the general quality of design of the hero. I.e. creative skill trees, not buggy, interesting versatility, interaction between gear and skills, community feedback and Gaz response, etc…
Defense (18): Suggests a hero’s ability to survive under pressure in a sustained attack.
DPS (15): Relative sustained damage a hero can put out on a single target: particularly bosses.
AOE (12): Relative damage in an area and effectiveness in clearing waves of mobs.
CC (10): Ability to control the movement and actions of mobs.
Party (8): Measures the party buffs and presence of powers that are particularly helpful for group play and/or benefit a party more so than soloing.
Scaling (5): How well a Hero scales after reaching Max Level.
Progression (4): A Hero’s general ease of progression until the end game
Ease (4): Measures the general skill factor needed to play this hero effectively. A score of (1) suggests a hero requires practice and patience to play well. A score of (4) suggests that a hero is very easy to play, even casually and will still have a significant impact.
Gear (4): Measures the relative importance of good gear on this hero. A Score of (4) suggests little farming is needed for the hero to do well. A score of (1) is indicative of substantial gear required to be effective.
Intangibles (+0 to +15): This value is a "bonus" value. This category measures everything else. Such as popularity, "fun factor", costume selection, voice over, animation - the things that make you want to actually play a hero or invite them into your group regardless of his or her min/max abilities. This is an important category and very subjective to the will of the community and varying opinions. If you feel a hero should receive a higher/lower score, but you just can't put your finger on why, press your case with intangibles. This value is considered a "bonus" value.
Trend: An indication of what you can expect for this Heroes future. This no longer affects the score.
HOW HEROES ARE EVALUATED
The first step is to develop a "criteria" a "standard" that is being used to begin this process. In this case, the "standard" is overall effectiveness. It is not just a list of which hero can dish out the most DPS. Rather, this list takes into account every facet of a hero’s contribution; both in solo play and in group play from level 1 - 60. Survivability, mobility, versatility, fun factor, holistic skill interaction and importantly (but often over looked) party support.
With criteria established, the next step is to analyze the "on paper" stats of a hero. What are his/her skills, how powerful are they, do they appear to work well together, and are there multiple build paths? Furthermore, we ask what is the relative (to other heroes) damage per second (DPS), damage mitigation, crowd control, mobility, boss killing efficiency, mob clearing effectiveness and more. By studying each hero we can begin to understand (in conjunction with our personal knowledge base and experience) how each hero is likely to perform “out in the field” and thus start forming a basic "working theory" for their individual rankings.
Armed with a criteria and first-step analysis, we then go out into the field and test the "working theory". This can be done by either directly playing a hero OR by observing said hero employed by other players and if nothing else, read about the experiences that others are having. We then consider how said hero performs in various situations, but we have to have a "control" i.e. a place where the playing field is "the same for everyone".
With the criteria, initial analysis, observation and revised analysis in place we can now put the findings in a public space for a "Peer Review". Thus anyone who may have some ideas of their own (backed with their own personal testing/experience) can offer some good insight to further adjust the formed list and begin the process of consensus
As a myriad of ideas come up for discussion, thus begins a healthy debate - a back and forth assertion of varying ideas will start to happen. A true consensus is nearly impossible to achieve (i.e. where everyone agrees with everything), but certainly a reasonable consensus can be achieved.
As the OP I am guiding and moderating the consensus in as an impartial a way as I can. True, I cannot be completely impartial (no one can) and inevitably there will be my own personal bias (to some degree) in these rankings. But someone has to do it and I believe I am qualified to do at least a fair-to middling job of it.
A disclaimer for the above: While I do want some "Science" to be an important part of these rankings there is and will always be an equal part of "feel" and "science in the rankings. There are too many variables and too many potential areas for debate, which will bog down the progress of the consensus.
IF you disagree with the rankings... please read the following...
Please do not just drop in to place a disagree flag and leave in silence; express your opinions. The list, no matter how arrived at is still, just a collection of opinions. None of us can prove or disprove a list which is half science and half "feel". I share the 5 step method with you in case you want to participate in the discussion (which I hope you do). If you disagree with the specific placement of a hero and would like your position to be considered, you must at least provide along with your personal opinion some sort of explanation; more detail will result in more sway. The best way to do this is by implementing a side by side comparison between the hero you feel should move up/down and another whose place you feel they should occupy. It is also very helpful if you qualify your experience with a particular hero either by direct play (or at what level) and observations you have made.
I promise you that your arguments will be given my full attention and weighed with my own ongoing research and the comments of others. Thus, together, we can present for the community and the Devs a very comprehensive, well considered and constantly monitored list.
Thank you very much for reading through all of the above!
Credits There have been many posts in this forum that have been instrumental in helping shape these rankings. Some contributors have stopped by on numerous occasions and I feel they deserve a mention here for the excellent commentary they have provided on an ongoing basis:@harrytasker, @Tsukho, @shnauser, @soryu, @jlaest, @leloric, @Mrduckie, @jjfunaz. @Makulu,@Elwinz, @Glockner, @Conviction, @tracerbullet, @captainzolzonzu, @Pjotroos As well, a special thank you goes out to @Scourm for a complete edit of the content. Thank you! And to everyone else who has helped along the way.
My Threads that might be of Interest...
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::...HERO LADDER RANKINGS...::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
1. Iron Man (94) ~ (42) "Contrary to popular belief, I know exactly what I`m doing..."
(Oct 14th) Tony finally has become an official "destroyer". He started near the middle of the pack and then slowly, but surely fell in the rankings - all the way to the bottom for a time. Then patch 1.3 came out with a whole new rework for him: new skills, better concepts and significantly more enjoyable. Within a few days, our favorite armored hero started to rise once again in the ranks. and with continued positive responses as to his effectiveness (which is in stark contrast to the early reviews of his rework) he arrived to take hold of first place - is it possible that Gaz getting close to the perfect Superhero? It is interesting to note, IM's rise here is a direct parallel of his growing popularity in the media. For years Spidey has been the "flagship" hero for the Marvel License; But watch out, a changing of the guard is happening right before our eyes. Iron Man's fan base is growing to epic levels (propelled in part by RDJ's excellent portrayal of a fragile jerk) and Peter Parker is taking a back seat. A must buy and play Hero right now.
2. Jean Grey (93) ~ (47) "I am fire! And life incarnate! Now and forever -- I am PHOENIX!"
(Oct 11th) Jean is the premier dominatrix. She controls and destroys mobs in spectacular fashion with the best AOE damage in the game. She has moved up and down in the rankings with bug fixes and skill tweaks. As players have become familiar with her skills and the changes to, she has finally settled quite firmly within the top 5. Gaz has worked hard to make her strong without being totally overpowering and the results are impressive; highly recommended by all who play her.
3. Spider Man (92) ~ (44) "I guess it's easy to laugh in the face of danger when you don't take anything too seriously."
(Nov 3rd) The Wall Crawler started around the middle of the pack in the rankings. He slowly declined as other Champs received reworks and buffs and had to slum it for awhile near the bottom. Spidey fans waited long and endured a lot, but the wait was worth it. Web Head got a full and powerful rework in October, that made most players very happy. It is true that some did not like the rework at first, but as the dust settled, "Amazing" and "Spiderman" can be paired once again.
4. Loki (92) (43)
(Nov 15th) Loki sneaks in to the fray with a powerful bag of devilish tricks and what some feel is the most fun champ to play yet. If there is something you want to do in the game, Loki can probabably do it and do it better than most champs. Strong in every category, no problematic weaknesses and worth your investment.
5. Deadpool (91) ~ (42) " Shhh. My common sense is tingling."
(Oct 21st) DP is one of the best designed Heroes. He has always been strong and FUN! He has remained pretty much between 5th and 10th with each new patch. But, with 1.4 he vaults into the top 5 - all the good, just got better!. He is viable as either a "sniper" or a self-sustaining "bruiser," but most feel his melee version is better right now. Equally good soloing or in a party, with easy leveling and excellent scaling. If there is any hero that is "worth the price of admission," DP is it. If you asked DP how he felt about being a "Galatic" Tier Hero, he will probably want to know if he is still allowed to have pancakes for breakfast. Woohoo!
6. Scarlet Witch (90) ~ (45) "I'm about to lose control!"
(Oct 21st) As a dominatrix, SW is currently the highest ranked free hero SW is quietly powerful in her own right. Her CC is second to none and allows her to survive by never taking a hit. Of course, if you mess up, she get's hurt quickly. Her DPS has been buffed to max proportions and she is great in a party. Gaz continues to improve her in smart, well considered and positive ways. She is worth playing all the way to Level 60.
My Threads that might be of Interest...
7. Colossus (89) ~ (43) "Then comrades, let us end this battle -- once and for all!"
(Nov 29th). At inception, Colossus was a top 10, arguable a top 5 Hero. Slowly and painfully he became a non factor as the game changed and he did not. Finally, a complete rework was unveiled and he is once again a viable and interesting hero to play. Not overpowering, respectable damage, good survivability, great in a party, and as one contributor stated "played by nice people". His skills have rewarding payoffs. Definitely worth dusting off and enjoying once again.
8. Storm (88) ~ (42) "I've been a thief, a goddess, and X-Man, and a queen. And yet, I somehow, I always end up in a sewer under New York City."
Storm is a dependable "dominatrix". She can tear through mobs, CC what remains and give her mates a much easier time in clearing and surviving. In the right hands and with error free play, she might even be worth a few positions higher; however, this is a safe spot in the rankings for her, because many have had issues getting her going or sticking with her past a certain point. Changes to spirit regen did hurt her a bit, but by now most players have adapted.
9. Cable (88) ~ (48) "I've been from the future to the past and back again...but I've run out of time".
(Oct 11th) As a leader/destroyer, Cable takes no crap from anyone. He continues to get stronger with every tweak or patch. Scott's son is the complete package - a Captain America with HUGE DPS. He has self-buffs, party buffs, escapes, sustained damage, excellent synergy and a is all round flat out cool. If every hero were designed like Cable, players would have little to complain about. Cable does require a higher level of skill than some other heroes to max out his optimal effectiveness and he is a bit slow out of the gate. Keep this in mind as you play him, as he should not be played too casually - expect to put the time in to master all his abilities. Cable is the perfect choice if you want to test your in game skills and be rewarded for your time, effort and practice.
10. Human Torch (87) ~ (39) "Flame On!"
(Oct 11th) #1 ranked "nuker". Torch solidified a top 5 placement very quickly after his debut and remains within range of top 5 after 2 patches. He is powerful with amazing visuals; A "blast" to play with fun skills, great synergy, and a cocky attitude. At 900 G, he is a bargain! Gaz's first new Hero is a winner and is standing the test of time. Try him out with confidence, you won't be disappointed.
11. Luke Cage (85) ~ (41) "You wanna fight?. I'm your action!"
(Oct 10th) Gaz had some interesting ideas for this "bruiser" that didn't quite work as planned. He can be somewhat counter intuitive to use in fast paced combat, so make sure you understand his pros and cons before getting serious about playing him every day. He is not as strong as the previous two releases (Emma and Torch), but he can hold his own in a fight and delivers a powerful punch overall.
12. Black Panther (83) ~ (42) "Brazen power oft succumbs to silence and stealth!"
(Oct 10th) A "killer” with scary DPS and some tricky moves that make him one of the most interesting heroes to play, always has and always will be my personal favorite. BP is a challenge to play, you must always be aware of what is coming at you and how to deal with it. He needs to keep moving to stay alive ~ of course this is part of the fun. As bonus, BP has a great voice over, fluid combat animations and if you can deal with his fragility, special gear requirements and high skill cap, you will enjoy playing him for a long time. Category Scores
12. Punisher (82) ~ (41) "For the guilty there is no escape from my justice."
(Oct 21st) As a Sniper, it's hard to find a meaningful role in a party and soloing is always a little more difficult but Punisher has been slowly sneaking up the rankings as Gaz adds some carefully considered buffs to him. His clear times are very good, his boss damage is respectable and his D has increased dramatically, making him a very viable and uniquely interesting Hero to play. He does require decent gear to get going but definitely worth giving a try and making an effort to play him to his utmost potential.
14. Rocket Raccoon (82) ~ (39) "I'm not packin' enough laser-power to drive that automaton back to its own territory! Time for a new strategy! Running!"
(Nov 8th) When this list was first introduced, RR was #1. I felt at the time his kit and his DPS were top notch. Like Many Heroes, he suffered though PVE changes that, for a time, made him obsolete. With 2.0 he gets a nice uprade on many powers and has become viable once again. RR is an excellent team leader and a decent sniper. Revisit him or try him for the first time, he is a lot of fun!
15. Thor (82) ~ (41) " Thou shalt crave far greater strength if the battle thou desireth comes!"
(Oct 17th) Thor struggled early on in his history but with several tweaks and few buffs along with some newly designed power, he rose to become a top 5 Hero for some time. Since 1.3, other Heroes have surpassed him in effectiveness and he drops out of the top 5. I personally like his power set and the way his skills interact. He is a fun Hero to play and will present a moderate challenge as you progress through the PVE content. His Defense is solid but does have some holes and you can get caught if you are not careful. Offensively, he excels at Melee with some respectable range options and a very powerful screen clearing God Blast. His voice over is entertaining but his costume selection is a bit light. Overall, a good pick up for both serious and casual players alike.
16. Hulk (81) ~ (39) "Depending upon a number of factors at the moment of transformation, Hulk's REASONING and INTELLIGENCE tend to... VARY."
(Oct 18th). Once a large green marshmallow, now the premier "tank, Hulk was at one point in the basement ~ last place and suffering... yeah, he was bad. Whatever Gaz was thinking of doing with him just was not working; in a word, an embarrassment. But, Gaz went to work on him and came out with a new Hulk on August 1st, 2013, with a game changing rework. Suddenly, Hulk rose to the top of the Ladder and enjoyed that position for many weeks. Buffs to other Heroes have moved him down but he remains very strong and fun to play. He breezes through the game with little resistance, lacking perhaps a little in versatility.
17. Emma Frost (80) ~ (38) "Of course I'm a threat. Why? Did you think for a moment that I wasn't?"
(Oct 21st) Emma is a well designed destroyer. She is going to be a force to be reckoned with for some time, Initially, Gaz went all out with her and gave her both huge DPS and incredible tanking in the game. Her pet capture ability is probably the most fun skill in the game and she was able to do anything and everything more efficiently than most other heroes. With the 1.4 patch, certain bug fixes, equipment changes and pet restrictions, have dramatically lowered Emma's damage output, but she is still very strong and brings lots of options for solo and party adventuring.
18. Squirrel Girl (80) ~ (38) "I'm the type of girl who will burst out laughing at something that happened yesterday"
(Oct 19th) A bruiser who has the potential to be very good or rather mundane. As MH's nuttiest Hero, she will certainly keep you entertained and from a pure novelty standpoint will have some "ah that's cool" moments. But be wary, her early game is said to be below average and he scaling is uncertain. 1 v 1 match ups are acceptable, but time will tell if she can hold her own in mob waves and in a party of serious PVE adventurers.
My Threads that might be of Interest...
19. Ms. Marvel (79) ~ (37) "I sort of accidentally blasted him in the crotch. Seven times in the crotch."
(Oct 10th) MM is a great Bruiser either as a pure melee or close ranged skirmisher. She struggled early on in her history, but much like Hulk, got a rework that made her instantly viable. Her DPS has fallen off as of late but her defensive prowess cannot be ignored. She is relatively easy to play and is well suited to casual adventuring.
20. Hawkeye (77) ~ (42) "First Sign of Madness. Talkin' to yourself. First Sign, definitely. Fishing's the Second."
(Oct 10th) Hawkeye is a "Sniper" and grinder; as you plunk away with strong basic attacks and somewhat impressive boss damage, Hawkeye's workman like skills and play style will get the job done. IF you can put up with his purple and pink pajamas and the "chunk, chunk, chunk" sound of his attacks, he will start to grow on you. He is easy to learn and a safe pick up to familiarize yourself with the ins and outs of the game. He does bring some party helpful CC and if he can stay alive makes for a competent back liner.
21. Thing (75) ~ (36) "It's Clobberin' Time!!!"
(Oct 10th) Right up there with Hulk, Thing is a Frontliner "tank,". His original design was good and he is in a reasonable spot for a tank in this Meta. Thing is very "solid" and his DPS has improved substantially from his early days (much more so than Colossus or Capt. America). So, if you like soaking up as much damage as possible and want to do a decent amount in return, all the while helping your party with a few good buffs, this hero is for you.
My Threads that might be of Interest...
22. Gambit  ~ 
...pending further review, I have copied one contributors post in whole.
Some really good ideas and fun skills there - Dead Man's Hand, Royal Flush. Too many passives that do too little. Very questionable mechanic in overcharge: half the fan base loves it, the other half hates it. Overall he's a bit too slow, a bit too weak on the defensive side, kicks off a bit too late. Feels fair to put him higher than Black Panther, lower than Colossus, and same as Thor.
He's a dodge hero with no shields or distracts. Expect this to go up or down a little as other Gambits come to comment, but 10/18 feels like a fair place to start.
He's got potential for a really awesome damage. Might be one of the highest hitters in the game but - until videos with ridiculously short TTK start popping up - I'm not putting him as high as Spider-Man.
Reportedly decent without Overcharge and really good with it. Few ways to do it. If nothing else, he doesn't suffer.
Unless there's some hidden tricks I'm missing, Gambit doesn't do CC. Knockdown on his frontal cone AOE is the only trick I was going for, otherwise it's just kill or be killed and move away from incoming damage.
I wouldn't be against grouping with Gambits, but I'm having hard time thinking about anything particularly useful they would bring to the table.
Bit of a prediction score on my part, but there's so many posts saying "just put item X or item Y and all your troubles will go away", you gotta give it some merit.
You must've seen all the threads even if you weren't visiting Gambit's forums. First 25 levels or so are not fun. He's late bloomer for sure, he's starved for spirit without proper items, his overcharge is hard to control until you get Rajin Cajun (Signature). He's never horrible, but he's always struggling with something - be it staying alive or staying juiced. Fun for some, horrible for others, not too good and not too bad overall.
Specific itemization and specific builds will get rewarded. Try to do whatever you feel like doing, use the abilities wrong way, and you'll be having a hard time.
Some of his uniques are all but required to play him effectively. The cure for what ails him around level 45 is Pym's Shrinking, and that thing does not grow on trees. He's still playable without those essentials, but very gear-dependant nonetheless.
They got his voice and some of his animations right, but some horrible quotes, lackluster trivia and general feel that he's too slow drags him down a little.
We've been promised he's gonna get better after the December overview.
23. Wolverine (72) ~ (33) "I need a beer!"
A Killer, who is not as strong overall as the Panther, but still brings much to the table; I admit I struggle with where to put him. The comments have always been all over the place on Wolvy "Godlike," "Horrible!” I guess Wolvy requires, at the very least, patience and perseverance. He does fall off a little in late game and early success may lead to some disappointment for those that take him all the way.
** Capt. America (94)** "We have no choice. So we fight -- and we win. There are no other options."
(Feb 25th) Mr. Rogers was one of the top ranked Heroes when this list was first introduced (around patch 1.1.) This was primarily due to his "unkillable" status and great party buffs. However, starting with patch 1.2 and continuing for some time, his status and value steadily dropped. His play style was sluggish and few players were regularly spending time on him.
All this changed, and dramatically so, with his recent design review. Capt. received a fantastic overhaul . Simply put, he is now the quintessential party leader - adopting the much needed role of an aggressive and supportive Tank. He can absorb huge amounts damage while at the same time he is able to dish out significant hurt and keep his team mates buffed, refreshed and protected.
It may be a surprise to some to note that his AOE damage is very good. First, he has an AOE basic attack - an extremely effective, no cost, "in the pocket" skill - one that I have maxed. Followed up by Airborne Assault, Shield Bounce and even Heroic Charge, The Capt. can clear waves with decent speed.
His CC is also very solid. Good Knockdowns, 3 Stun options and the ultimate close quarters CC - a spamable taunt. Known as "Patriots Challenge", this must have skill also weakens opponents when used - a defining skill for any current and future Tank Class Heroes.
Progression is easy and fun. His skill rotations are intuitive and compliment each other nicely. Only Average gear is needed to make an impact. He has a diverse costume selection, appropriately arrogant voice over "they don't make thugs like they used to!", and animations are that are "just right" - not overdone like the nuclear blast, full screen, eye blinding orange, yellow and red Fire Storms of some other Heroes (who shall remain unamed )
Overall, Whether in a pick up session or planned party missions, Stevey is the Hero that all teams should start with and revolve around.
25. Black Widow (69) ~ (36) Don't think I'm helpless, just because I'm soft and cuddly!"
(Oct 11th) Once the queen of all DPS (due to a bug and game crashing drone spam), BW falls from the top 3 all the way down to the bottom 3. What happened? Well, she was broken and had to be fixed. The "fix" was decent to give her an average rank, but then the defense change came in, pushing her DPS way down while her own survivability stayed relatively poor. Essentially, BW got caught between bug fixes and game changes. Further, her kit is halfway between a sniper and a bruiser - a "snuiser" if you will. Is she versatile? Yes. Is she effective? Not right now.
26. Cyclops (69) ~ (35) "Get it done, guys. Get me a doctor. Stop panic. Save the world. It's an order, not a request."
(Oct 10th) Cyclops has always been one of the best heroes to have in your group. He is a nuker with great party buffs but has always been reported as too squishy and not so much fun to play. He pretty much is a grouping hero only. But, in this role, his value would go up. Sadly, we must consider his soloing potential for these rankings and this is where he struggles.
27. DareDevil (60) ~ (30) "No, I don't want to hear your excuses -- and Yes, I'm here to kick your face in."
(Nov 7th) Daredevil has been up and down as a viable "bruiser." For a long time he sat near the bottom. Then he rose to the top 10 for a short time with very specific gear and constantly monitored play. He is fun at times, frustrating at others, but not a bad pick up if you want a challenge. He has some cool skills and sufficient damage mitigation to help offset his woeful DP
My Threads that might be of Interest...
End Game Power Rankings
This is list is the total of DPS, Def, AOE, CC and Party *.5 (rounded down)
Last Update: November 9th
Black Panther 42
My Threads that might be of Interest...
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EDIT: Full feedback on rework coming later.....
EDIT 2: Link to comment here - https://forums.marvelheroes.com/discussion/comment/515118/#Comment_515118
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With this new idea this ranking has just gone from awesome to super uber awesome. Congratulations man! If you need any help with this tell me.
And btw, Emma's Stab is misplaced :P.
Next hype: Magneto (60/400 splinters)
@Exqzr I just want to chime in and say that Cables total %mitigation is only roughly about 5% lower than Emma.
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When similarly geared..??
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I average 58% on Cable and, again, this is my personal experience, but the geared Emma's I've seen hover around 63%. Maybe I'm wrong
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@Exqzr I suggest you do it like this
Its already a pain scrolling up to see the max value since they all are different.