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Ladder/Seasonal System - Danger Room

CovertLocation herePosts: 887 Amazing

Before I get into this, it's a continuation of a thread from a few months ago. I tossed around the idea of posting it seperate, but didn't at the time.
tl;dr -

Poe Leagues and D3 GRs, except in the danger room.

If you look at the primary competition to Marvel Heroes in the ARPG market, there's an absolute truth in each of them, Ladders. More than ladders, seasonal ladders that occur every few months. The prestige system is evidence enough in Marvel Heroes that people just enjoy starting over on characters and having fun again from scratch. It's not my favorite part of ARPGs, but it is to a LOT of the fanbase within them. It's understandable though that due to the nature of how heroes work within MH, this isn't a simple system to do. This is my proposed solution to that.

Danger Room 'Patches'

Instead of just a flat different server or something, add a mode in the danger room that allows you to create a copy of your character for each patch(season.) The copy characters can be in a new tab (next to the hero and team up tabs) that can ONLY be accessed within the Danger Room hub itself, or perhaps a specialized danger room hub world, that's essentially ALL of marvel heroes, but a simulated version.

Each Patch or Season would essentially be something new or special to Marvel Heroes. Certain modifiers can affect the entirety of the game within these patches that alter the gameplay experience in some minor or major way. If this sounds familiar, you probably recognize it from the special Leagues in Path of Exile. Just as one example of a patch effect, a "Symbiote Patch" could be the theme, where random mobs are inhabited by symbiotes, and occasional symbiote bosses can show up with unique loot.

Each of these patches can also have some kind of special account reward related to them. Finishing certain goals on a simulated character can earn you certain rewards for that character. As an example, if you were to complete 5 special objectives, such as killing certain bosses relevant to that character, you could earn the Matrix costume* for that character in both the regular world.

There's a world of possibilities on possible rewards, but this is more about the concept of the idea as a whole. I mentioned ladders, not just seasons, and that's part 2 of this entire idea.

*

The Matrix Costume is essentially a blue digital like costume appearance that I think should be default on simulated characters. Just the default costume, but all blue digital wire-frame like. Kind of like the danger room wireframes themselves.

Danger Room Challenge Tiers

So patch ideas out of the way, what do you do when you reach the endgame? When you hit your Top Tier at the moment, your option is essentially, play another character, or try to get even better at stuff you already can't get much better at. Why not change how the difficulty slider works entirely in regards to certain terminals?

Instead of having just the standard difficulty sliders settings for terminals or even DR scenarios themselves, why not have them become more difficult forever? Allow people the chance to push themselves higher and higher, finishing things faster and better than before, and see if they can be on top of their respective character ladders. If this concept also sounds familiar, it's no different than the Greater Rift portion of Diablo 3. Some would complain about issues involving power creep, but that's already present in MH, and there's very little way (outside of TTK and TTL testers) to monitor just how well balanced heroes are. This system without practical uses is a fun use of time that I think a lot of people will enjoy, but on top of that it's an excellent way to gauge just how over or under powered certain characters or builds truly are.

You can't just take ideas from other games!

If you're thinking this, I'd like to welcome you to video games, since this is apparently your first one. Intellectual Property is not extended to simple concepts or ideas. In terms of mechanics and systems and how they work, it's not about who gets to it first, it's about who does it the best. Now, if they were to put a big rock in the danger room that you activate to go into greater rifts, because you're a nephelam, THAT would be stealing.

Original thread
https://forums.marvelheroes.com/discussion/317645/i-figured-out-why-im-not-enjoying-marvel-heroes-anymore/p1

Location FrenchvillePosts: 1,616 Cosmic

I totally agree with you.

Truth be told, I'd love to see PoE Leagues in Marvel Heroes (where you'd need to level back heroes, gear them and take on challenges under a limited time, with leaderboards that eventually could give a few uniques things like titles, variant team-up or pets). You'd play daily and probably spend a few bucks into boosts for that. I'm waiting for the current PoE league to end so I can, again, start the next one on the very first day (may 30 if I'm correct?)

As a business POV, it's a win. You make people come back, play a lot and eventually spend money without the need to make new content! You just need a leaderboard and a prepare a few gifts. I don't understand why Gaz never did this. It's beyond my comprehension.

Marvel Heroes WITH the Marvel IP barely make 1k players while Path of Exile with no known IP and and way more complex (difficult?) game have 20k players daily. At one point you have to ask yourself what you did wrong.

Location FrenchvillePosts: 1,616 Cosmic

@Tzeentch said:
I feel like it creates a false sense of gameplay and is a way for devs to take a lazy approach to game updates

Path of Exile had 5 majors update in 2016 (Talisman, Ascendancy (2.2), Prophecy (2.3), Atlas of Worlds (2.4) and Breach (2.5)). We're on 2.6 and in June we'll have 3.0 with Act V.

I understand it could be seen as a lazy way of doing things if it was the only thing done, but for PoE it's far from that. On the other side, you have Marvel heroes with no league/rift etc and no new content either :trollface:

@Tzeentch said:
I don't mind prestiging a hero, i do mind losing all my progress and starting over from scratch as if nothing i did just mattered, or i got some token pet/costume/flourish/etc...

You lose nothing at the end of the League, every seasonal characters you've created go to the standard playground, with all the items you can have collected.

@Tzeentch said:
MH pushes seasons in a way that makes me feel like i'm missing out on something... i would be beyond unhappy.

I don't do PvP in MH, so I can't have the great "Kill the Marvel Universe" title. Does it bother me? Not at all. If a part of the game doesn't prevent me to play the game as I like, I don't care. I don't do PvP but I don't want PvP to disappear either, even if I'm missing something.

As long as a game mode doesn't interfere with how I play, I don't see why it should disappear or not happen. "I won't do it so I don't want it to be made." I don't like that way of thinking.

Posts: 724 Amazing

Has @Asros stated where he stands on a Ladder/Seasonal Event? I also have hoped for things very similar to this.

CovertLocation herePosts: 887 Amazing

@Tzeentch said:
Nope.

At least i don't want it, or anything at all to do with seasons.

I hate seasons with a passion. I feel like it creates a false sense of gameplay and is a way for devs to take a lazy approach to game updates. I don't mind prestiging a hero, i do mind losing all my progress and starting over from scratch as if nothing i did just mattered, or i got some token pet/costume/flourish/etc...

It's the biggest thing keeping me away from PoE, and if MH pushes seasons in a way that makes me feel like i'm missing out on something... i would be beyond unhappy.

You make it sound like these things would be mandatory. I mostly just play Standard on PoE, but that doesn't mean the majority don't enjoy the leagues.

Location I'm not the second coming, I'm the first wave.Posts: 12,049 Cosmic

While not opposed to the idea, I'm not a big league/season person and I'd be concerned to know how much work this would take to implement and what may get pushed back while they're working on it.

Location TexasPosts: 426 Amazing

The epeen is strong in this thread. People want their names at the top of a I played more than anyone else list for the duration. Seems like a good way to go. Doesn't effect me one way or another similar to the whole Raid and PVP thing.

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Location ArizonaPosts: 2,343 Fantastic

Well hopefully there's a competitive seasonal ladder on the console version or a lot of new players are not going to touch it or stick with it after they blow through the content on a Saturday afternoon.

Let the console kiddies Guinea Pig such a system first.

CovertLocation herePosts: 887 Amazing

@Draliv said:
The epeen is strong in this thread. People want their names at the top of a I played more than anyone else list for the duration. Seems like a good way to go. Doesn't effect me one way or another similar to the whole Raid and PVP thing.

What I personally enjoy and what the majority of ARPG players appear to enjoy are two different things. I want the game to be more successful. More people means more resources for the developers.

Posts: 890 Amazing
Posts: 845 Amazing

@Satsugaisuru said:
I totally agree with you.

Truth be told, I'd love to see PoE Leagues in Marvel Heroes (where you'd need to level back heroes, gear them and take on challenges under a limited time, with leaderboards that eventually could give a few uniques things like titles, variant team-up or pets). You'd play daily and probably spend a few bucks into boosts for that. I'm waiting for the current PoE league to end so I can, again, start the next one on the very first day (may 30 if I'm correct?)

As a business POV, it's a win. You make people come back, play a lot and eventually spend money without the need to make new content! You just need a leaderboard and a prepare a few gifts. I don't understand why Gaz never did this. It's beyond my comprehension.

Marvel Heroes WITH the Marvel IP barely make 1k players while Path of Exile with no known IP and and way more complex (difficult?) game have 20k players daily. At one point you have to ask yourself what you did wrong.

So season with boost? sounds fair. Better hope everyone got a lot money to spend then. May the richest win!

CovertLocation herePosts: 887 Amazing

@nn8n8n8n8nn said:

@Nudal said:

you would probably be just as happy if they started to do DR tournaments, again

I wouldn't, this isn't about just what I want. I don't like climbing ladders and I don't like MOST seasonal things, unless there's something different or worthwhile to them.

This doesn't take away from the fact that MOST of the ARPG community does actually enjoy these things.

CovertLocation herePosts: 887 Amazing

Let me just say this... this isn't me wanting to be a try hard. This is what the majority of ARPG players actually enjoy, regardless of how I feel about it. If you disagree, consider this point please.... Is the community here on this forum 'MOST' of the arpg community? Or is it, more specifically, the MH community that has stuck with the game no matter what and don't bother to play other ARPGs?

Please realize, I am NOT saying to re-make every system in the game and rework every hero.... because that's not what the community wants... cough... I'm saying things to add in that, relatively speaking, shouldn't require many resources, or at least many new assets.

Location FrenchvillePosts: 1,616 Cosmic

@Draliv said:
The epeen is strong in this thread.

If we're talking about tournament, maybe. But well, we all knows that AAA will always have the better score.

I myself want a PoE League in MH. It's just about a number of challenges to do in order to get visual stuff, so there's no really score.

@ManaKami said:

@Satsugaisuru said:
I totally agree with you.

Truth be told, I'd love to see PoE Leagues in Marvel Heroes (where you'd need to level back heroes, gear them and take on challenges under a limited time, with leaderboards that eventually could give a few uniques things like titles, variant team-up or pets). You'd play daily and probably spend a few bucks into boosts for that. I'm waiting for the current PoE league to end so I can, again, start the next one on the very first day (may 30 if I'm correct?)

As a business POV, it's a win. You make people come back, play a lot and eventually spend money without the need to make new content! You just need a leaderboard and a prepare a few gifts. I don't understand why Gaz never did this. It's beyond my comprehension.

Marvel Heroes WITH the Marvel IP barely make 1k players while Path of Exile with no known IP and and way more complex (difficult?) game have 20k players daily. At one point you have to ask yourself what you did wrong.

So season with boost? sounds fair. Better hope everyone got a lot money to spend then. May the richest win!

Which boost makes killing Cosmic Bosses easier?

Posts: 1,665 Fantastic

@Nudal said:
If you look at the primary competition to Marvel Heroes in the ARPG market, there's an absolute truth in each of them, Ladders. More than ladders, seasonal ladders that occur every few months.

It's a lot easier to do something like that in a game where you have five or ten classes instead of sixty-something. To have any kind of "ladder" system you'd need a pretty decent level of balance for it to mean anything, something that becomes harder and harder to do with more and more characters. This also penalizes people who want to play multiple characters as opposed to concentrate on one, which Gaz isn't likely to appreciate since selling new heroes and costumes for said heroes is part of their business model. Then of course you have the impact of things like boosts.

So you'd be having them investing time and resources, and dramatically increasing the size of their database, for something that isn't likely to work very well due to balance issues and boosts, and would ultimately undermine part of their business model at a time where they don't seem to be doing super well as is.

Doesn't sound awesome.

@Nudal said:
The prestige system is evidence enough in Marvel Heroes that people just enjoy...

... free costumes.

Posts: 1,665 Fantastic

@Satsugaisuru said:
Which boost makes killing Cosmic Bosses easier?

SHIELD Supply Drop allows for easier access to better gear, which helps kill bosses. XP boosts allow for more Infinity at a faster rate, which is a direct increase in power. Combo boots do both of those.

So 3/4 of them do that.

Posts: 320 Amazing

@Satsugaisuru said:

So season with boost? sounds fair. Better hope everyone got a lot money to spend then. May the richest win!

Which boost makes killing Cosmic Bosses easier?

Your original suggestion came off as if leveling/gearing heroes would be part of the competition.

you'd need to level back heroes, gear them and take on challenges under a limited time

Posts: 320 Amazing

There is really no easy way to implement seasonal ladders in MH danger room.

Maybe have a point system that rewards on a fluctuating curve which changes based on the average clear time of a given hero. Throw away the outliers so no one is purposely trying to manipulate averages. Still will "force" players into top builds but no matter what you do there will be unhappy people.

The major issue is the variance in the chips themselves. Chip "difficulty" rewards based on likelihood of success rather than completion speed. Making many scenario modifiers worthless.

Static tournament scenarios will get stale in a hurry depending on the season length.

Location FrenchvillePosts: 1,616 Cosmic

@HappyHappyJoyJoy said:

@Satsugaisuru said:
Which boost makes killing Cosmic Bosses easier?

SHIELD Supply Drop allows for easier access to better gear, which helps kill bosses. XP boosts allow for more Infinity at a faster rate, which is a direct increase in power. Combo boots do both of those.

So 3/4 of them do that.

You're right, I didn't thought of it that way. Thanks for the input.

May the richest win then :tongue:

Location Waits in the dark with timeless patience. Looks forward to the signs that herald his end. Posts: 16,673 Cosmic

@Satsugaisuru said:

@Tzeentch said:
I feel like it creates a false sense of gameplay and is a way for devs to take a lazy approach to game updates

Path of Exile had 5 majors update in 2016 (Talisman, Ascendancy (2.2), Prophecy (2.3), Atlas of Worlds (2.4) and Breach (2.5)). We're on 2.6 and in June we'll have 3.0 with Act V.

I understand it could be seen as a lazy way of doing things if it was the only thing done, but for PoE it's far from that. On the other side, you have Marvel heroes with no league/rift etc and no new content either :trollface:

@Tzeentch said:
I don't mind prestiging a hero, i do mind losing all my progress and starting over from scratch as if nothing i did just mattered, or i got some token pet/costume/flourish/etc...

You lose nothing at the end of the League, every seasonal characters you've created go to the standard playground, with all the items you can have collected.

@Tzeentch said:
MH pushes seasons in a way that makes me feel like i'm missing out on something... i would be beyond unhappy.

I don't do PvP in MH, so I can't have the great "Kill the Marvel Universe" title. Does it bother me? Not at all. If a part of the game doesn't prevent me to play the game as I like, I don't care. I don't do PvP but I don't want PvP to disappear either, even if I'm missing something.

As long as a game mode doesn't interfere with how I play, I don't see why it should disappear or not happen. "I won't do it so I don't want it to be made." I don't like that way of thinking.

Agree with all this. Also gaz can't create new content (game modes etc) regularly so this is a nice in between IMO.


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