Categories

The Marvel Heroes 2016 servers are back online with game update 2.03!
145791014

[Test Center] Iceman Update

Posts: 246 Amazing

+1 for movement snow blower & ClockworkBard's idea as well. Having more build options is always good.

Location Where G per H earning rate is too low. Posts: 2,206 Fantastic

@MichaelMayhem said:
Snowblower has mixed feedback regarding stationary vs moving. Stationary makes it a better area clear, but does force it into a similar space as Ice Beam. Moving is better for theme (it was added due to requests for more Ice Slide combat tricks), but is harder to keep damage on a target.

@MichaelMayhem - Moving powers could use shift+ stationary option

Location your favorite nightclubPosts: 1,729 Fantastic

HIs damage definitely needs a buff....he is already weak on live...we just haven't been as vocal because we assumed u were going to buff it in the character passes...plz buff

Weapon-XPosts: 846 Amazing

@MichaelMayhem

As far as graphics go, and since we are on the subject, wouldn't having the ability to turn other people's particle effects off or down a lot help in this regard? This goes for any instance of this scenario, not just frozen orb.

Posts: 2,115 Fantastic

@Snowearth said:
I'm excited! These changes look great.
Just do something about his voice, please! D:

Yes, please, for the love of God rewrite his dialogue!!

Posts: 2,115 Fantastic

With Ice Slick and Frozen Orb getting cool downs, what's his spammable AoE?

AgentPosts: 1,953 Fantastic
edited February 16

@MichaelMayhem said:
Some commentary while I digest and make some iterations for tomorrow:

Seems like Chillblains is pretty popular - making it more of a viable choice seems like an easy win.

Removing Frozen Orb's cooldown is really, really hard to justify without turning the power into "throw snowballs", and make it look nothing like what it does now. It's that far beyond what should be accepted for performance and game visibility for a spammable attack. Compared to Doom or Storm's ball lightning attacks, you could stack 5 of each of those on top of each other and it STILL wouldn't equal one single Frozen Orb. It's also not terribly iconic to Iceman - it's our homage to a beloved power from the genre, but the general feeling was that true Iceman fans would prefer using beams or snowblower as an iconic area clearing skill - something more direct from his power set. Those powers aren't satisfying that role at the moment, so we'll need to improve on that to make the Frozen Orb change more digestible.

More Chill applicators are warranted. Likely to show up on Ice Wall or Snow Plow.

Snowblower has mixed feedback regarding stationary vs moving. Stationary makes it a better area clear, but does force it into a similar space as Ice Beam. Moving is better for theme (it was added due to requests for more Ice Slide combat tricks), but is harder to keep damage on a target. We can return this on a talent, but it has the problem of needing to be added on to another talent - on its own, it's too niche to eat an entire talent slot, and added onto any other talent, it may create friction if you want only a portion of that talent and not the change to Snowblower. Best course of action at this point seems to be to keep it stationary, since the mobile version can't be as fast as the ice slide would want to be and doesn't fulfill the Iceman fantasy as well as his Travel power or his Signature already do.

I hope it's not too late for my feedback for today's iteration.

1) Please bring back the old Frozen Orbs! Many of us hardcore Iceman players adore Frozen Orbs because it is one of the strongest AoE powers in this whole game. If you have to adjust the graphic, then please try a different visual effect. The orb itself has heavy graphic, but why can we reduce the size of the orb but keep the Aura around it to maintain the existing AoE radius and the mechanism of multiple-ticks? You already took away Ironman's Pulsing Bolts (which also deal multiple-ticks) in the re-deign--greatly disappointed.

2) Ice Beam is a horrible power (and Snow Blower)

  • Reason 1) They are a 4-tick per second power. When you move the beam around the screen (or Snow Blow through the crowd), you can barely get 1-tick of damage on the target. I highly suggest you test this out yourself to see the difference between Ice Beam and Iron Man "Channeled Repuslor" (and Doom's "Channeled Torment") where you can weave around the screen and every target receives the full 2-tick per second damage. In this game, 4-tick per second is much inferior power than 2-tick per second because you have to be stationary for the whole second to get all 4-ticks in; whereas you can easily get 2-ticks in with 2-tick per second power, and quickly switch to another power. So 4-tick per second has a major design flaw.
  • Reason 2) If I had to be stationary, I would rather spam Frozen Orbs as it is a much larger AoE crowd clearing power. It is the most amazing power against larger targets like raid bosses (and Sentinels) due to the multi-tick mechanism.

3) Golems

  • Many times one of the three Golems just pace around trying to get into the target--dealing ZERO damage. The AI needs to be fixed.

4) This "chilled" damage mechanism needs to be re-designed. Currently two of his best AoE powers DO NOT apply chill (orbs and Ice Slick). Orbs and Ice Slick should also apply "chill effect" (in addition to the Deep Freeze effect) so it makes sense to throw in the orb and then deal 15% more damage to chilled enemies from whatever powers that follow. Right now, it works the reverse fashion. I need to use single target power like "Ice Beam" and "Chillbain" to apply CHILLED (exclude the awkward Snow Blower power) first, and my big AoE powers will then receive the bonus damage benefit. Please add "chill" to orbs and Ice Slick.

5) Increase the freeze duration.

  • I just tested out Ice Slick and then Hail Prop. I can barely get the "Shatter" damage due to the extremely short freeze duration. Right now the freeze duration is so short that if you don't use the Shatter power instantly, you will loose that bonus damage.

6) Icebraker Talent

  • with this Talent selected, can we have "Flash Freeze/Frost Nova" cool down be reduced to 4-second as well? That will make the Shattering rotation much smoother.
Posts: 2,512 Cosmic

@BluBmbr said:
With Ice Slick and Frozen Orb getting cool downs, what's his spammable AoE?

Pretty sure Mayhem mentioned about us clearing with Ice Beam and Snowbowler.. But if Ice Beam will have a CD and Snowbowler will be more of a melee clear.. Idk.. Sounds like all CD clears, which in theory don't sound all bad.. But sure we will see this upcoming patch.

Posts: 549 Amazing

@Celfix said:

@BluBmbr said:
With Ice Slick and Frozen Orb getting cool downs, what's his spammable AoE?

Pretty sure Mayhem mentioned about us clearing with Ice Beam and Snowbowler.. But if Ice Beam will have a CD and Snowbowler will be more of a melee clear.. Idk.. Sounds like all CD clears, which in theory don't sound all bad.. But sure we will see this upcoming patch.

Icebeam only has a cd with the talent, but it's also a terrible terrible skill, along with snowblower.

The only thing that would make sense here is replacing flash freeze with frost nova WITHOUT a talent.

Posts: 18 Mighty

I haven't tried TC yet, but I do want to mention that spammable Frozen Orb is my main power. I am definitely nervous about charges and cooldowns on it. I understand that graphics performance is an issue, but the mechanics of this power on live are both unique and fun. Could there be a talent that put things back to the old way, or increased the charges to 6?

Or, what if there were a charge-up mechanic? If you release after a full charge, you get up to 6 orbs, if you release with the minimum charge-up, you get one orb. That would make a cooldown more acceptable, since you have more control over how hard you "dig in." It would also match the extremely long wind-up for the power.

Posts: 2,512 Cosmic

@Faffinette said:

@Celfix said:

@BluBmbr said:
With Ice Slick and Frozen Orb getting cool downs, what's his spammable AoE?

Pretty sure Mayhem mentioned about us clearing with Ice Beam and Snowbowler.. But if Ice Beam will have a CD and Snowbowler will be more of a melee clear.. Idk.. Sounds like all CD clears, which in theory don't sound all bad.. But sure we will see this upcoming patch.

Icebeam only has a cd with the talent, but it's also a terrible terrible skill, along with snowblower.

The only thing that would make sense here is replacing flash freeze with frost nova WITHOUT a talent.

Oh I don't want to use Flash Freeze at all.. I would prefer for that skill to go somewhere... far far away from his kit. It's effect could be placed elsewhere.. On some skill of similar CD maybe even Ice Slick..

Posts: 268 Amazing
edited February 16

disregard

Posts: 1,887 Cosmic
edited February 16

@ClockworkBard said:

@MichaelMayhem said:
Snowblower has mixed feedback regarding stationary vs moving. Stationary makes it a better area clear, but does force it into a similar space as Ice Beam. Moving is better for theme (it was added due to requests for more Ice Slide combat tricks), but is harder to keep damage on a target. We can return this on a talent, but it has the problem of needing to be added on to another talent - on its own, it's too niche to eat an entire talent slot, and added onto any other talent, it may create friction if you want only a portion of that talent and not the change to Snowblower. Best course of action at this point seems to be to keep it stationary, since the mobile version can't be as fast as the ice slide would want to be and doesn't fulfill the Iceman fantasy as well as his Travel power or his Signature already do.

I could be wrong, but I feel the Movement Snowblower mainly suits the melee build. If you're playing ranged, it's going to move you closer to a target you weren't really interested in closing in on to begin with. The same also kind of holds true for Glacial Slam. It's a power I can't really see using without a melee-talented build, for much the same reason.

Just spitballing, but what if we reworked Avalanche to fill that role and emphasize that focus on mobility. We could make it a talent all about ice sliding, essentially. Maybe have it convert Snowblower to its Movement form, give some bonus to Snow Plow (+1 charge, reduced cooldown, etc) and give him Rogue's secondary-resource version of Juggernaut's Momentum -- but light blue, obviously. Snowblower would generate Momentum quickly. Snow Plow would generate a burst of it when used. Glacial Slam would spend it for a damage bonus. Regular melee builds could take it just for the extra dashing and periodic damage boost to their gap closer, or you could main Snowblower to make a full movement build out of it. Thoughts?

Follow up throught to this idea. Instead of a full secondary resource -- which I understand could induce some confusion and turn people away from a perceived mandatory mechanic that actively discourages being stationary -- it can cause Snow Plow and Movement-Snowblower to generate Ice Armor, as an alternative or supplement to his basic. Then you just leave the current Avalanche mechanics in place for Glacial Slam. The talent retains its current functionality, but also integrates an optional movement mechanic as well. The only people put out would be those that really wanted both a stationary Snowblower and the ability to spend Armor on Glacial Slam.

So, in short form:

Avalanche

  • Glacial Slam spends Ice Armor to deal additional damage.
  • Snow Plow gains +1 charge and generates Ice Armor.
  • Snowblower becomes a Movement power that propels Ice Man forward as it channels and generates Ice Armor.

I feel like the notion that Snowblower is constantly building up damage for Glacial Slam (or at least additional Armor, giving it a similar utility to Spider-Man's Rapidfire Webs) kind of helps mitigate that "I have to always be hitting with it, but that's hard to do on channeled movement powers" sentiment. No second spent on it is entirely wasted, even when it doesn't connect. Possibly giving it a short lingering effect to further help with maintaining it -- like Green Goblin's Pumpkin Bombs -- could help too. Sure, people could just tap it to try and weave-abuse it, but if channeling it directly contributes additional benefits beyond immediate damage, that becomes of mixed benefit. Trying to weave a power that moves you around has other hurdles as well.

MutatedLocation 616Posts: 3,231 Uncanny

Just wondering if these changes have gone live yet? I would like to get him off the bench and get him into action again. I am very happy to hear he is getting reworked. He was my favorite summoner to use.

AgentPosts: 1,953 Fantastic

@mikwuyma said:
Personally, I would never use ice beam or snowblower because they both take about half a second to register hits, which makes them both awful for feel and DPS.

As far as I can tell, the powers don't register hits right away to prevent weaving, but other characters like Human Torch can still weave, and his channeled aoe powers feel much better because they hit instantly.

I agree. Other Channeled powers that deal 2-tick per second can register hit right away (2 hits) so you can move the beam around. Ice Beam has the WORST design. You can barely get one hit if you move the beam around--and it is 4-tick per second one.

Ironman's beam and Doom's channeled power works wonderfully.

Posts: 2,512 Cosmic

@trogeta said:
Just wondering if these changes have gone live yet? I would like to get him off the bench and get him into action again. I am very happy to hear he is getting reworked. He was my favorite summoner to use.

Nah this isn't live yet, I am guessing tomorrow?

Posts: 771 Amazing

@Newager said:
@MichaelMayhem

I'm putting melee iceman in your hands hopefully he gets better, I know melee Bobby isnt that popular but before any update hes too easy to die without abusing ice block, does sub par damage compared to other heroes cept the signature.

I am thinking a tanking/melee Iceman can do quite well again coming from the view of a Colossus player who sees alot of similarities between them, making him tanky does take away from damage but I think he has potential.

Posts: 23 Mighty
edited February 16

Reading through this thread, this is a lot to digest!

Snow Blower:
- I did enjoy the movement version thematically but in terms of practicality and mechanics, it was a bit awkward and unrewarding.

@ClockworkBard said:
So, in short form:

Avalanche

  • Glacial Slam spends Ice Armor to deal additional damage.
  • Snow Plow gains +1 charge and generates Ice Armor.
  • Snowblower becomes a Movement power that propels Ice Man forward as it channels and generates Ice Armor.

I feel like the notion that Snowblower is constantly building up damage for Glacial Slam (or at least additional Armor, giving it a similar utility to Spider-Man's Rapidfire Webs) kind of helps mitigate that "I have to always be hitting with it, but that's hard to do on channeled movement powers" sentiment. No second spent on it is entirely wasted, even when it doesn't connect. Possibly giving it a short lingering effect to further help with maintaining it -- like Green Goblin's Pumpkin Bombs -- could help too. Sure, people could just tap it to try and weave-abuse it, but if channeling it directly contributes additional benefits beyond immediate damage, that becomes of mixed benefit. Trying to weave a power that moves you around has other hurdles as well.

  • I really like this idea, especially when combined with laying an ice slick or two down and sliding across them with snow blower and snow plow. This would overall bring some purpose to his thematic movement powers and some versatility to his builds, both ranged and melee.
  • Another idea to consider for snowblower: What if it buffed his summons or interacted with them in some way?

Chillblain and Icebeam:
- They both need to be buffed to make different builds relevant to the damage and utility of a shatter build.

145791014
Sign In or Register to comment.