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[Test Center] Iceman Update (2/22)

Posts: 2,522 Cosmic

I don't really see Ice Slick CD as ok though.. I mean there are way more excessive visuals out there, let's take Chaos Rift from SW, that one can eliminate mobs..And there is no CD. Same goes for Storm of Spheres by Sue, pretty visual yet no CD.

Iceman doesn't really have a trash clear without it, if you want have a CD on it sure give us a talent to do so otherwise leave it without CD. Limit areas to 2 if needs be.

Posts: 1,140 Fantastic

@Celfix said:
I don't really see Ice Slick CD as ok though.. I mean there are way more excessive visuals out there, let's take Chaos Rift from SW, that one can eliminate mobs..And there is no CD. Same goes for Storm of Spheres by Sue, pretty visual yet no CD.

Iceman doesn't really have a trash clear without it, if you want have a CD on it sure give us a talent to do so otherwise leave it without CD. Limit areas to 2 if needs be.

I think the cooldown has more to do with gameplay. There are very few powers that cause deep freeze, none now, are without cooldowns. It kind of forces a balance between shatters and deepfreeze on your hotbar.

Posts: 2,522 Cosmic

@JoshieB said:

@Celfix said:
I don't really see Ice Slick CD as ok though.. I mean there are way more excessive visuals out there, let's take Chaos Rift from SW, that one can eliminate mobs..And there is no CD. Same goes for Storm of Spheres by Sue, pretty visual yet no CD.

Iceman doesn't really have a trash clear without it, if you want have a CD on it sure give us a talent to do so otherwise leave it without CD. Limit areas to 2 if needs be.

I think the cooldown has more to do with gameplay. There are very few powers that cause deep freeze, none now, are without cooldowns. It kind of forces a balance between shatters and deepfreeze on your hotbar.

Well we still need something to trash clear with...

Location Waiting for more Colossal UpdatesPosts: 573 Amazing

Does he have invulnerability on cast for his Ultimate I forgot to ask? lol

Posts: 34 Mighty

Hail drops moves really slow. Ice Beam feels clunky with the talent, actually most channeled cool down powers don't feel good as it roots you with no damage reduction and you usually have to break them early.

The whole chilled/frozen/shatter is poorly communicated from a visual standpoint. It reminds me of ice mages in wow but this game is a lot more spammy than wow so setting up a a shatter combo just doesn't work here. If its does there's so much stuff going on here that you'll probably wont even notice it. The way it works here is just this power causes frozen so use this other power right after it which isn't really interesting and just forced you into a predetermined rotation.

MutatedPosts: 305 Amazing

@MetaPikaKirby said:
Does he have invulnerability on cast for his Ultimate I forgot to ask? lol

I don't believe so, but I was focused on other things when I tested him out. @ApolloSeven requested it which makes me believe it's still missing and we can be killed while it's activating.

AgentPosts: 1,958 Fantastic
edited February 16

@AgentVapor said:

.

  • Frozen Orb now has a cooldown and 2 charges. This has been on the borderline as a needed change for some time due to the visual obscurity and performance problems with Frozen Orb when over-spammed. Changing it now makes the most sense in the context of the changes to Deep Freeze with this update.

Why did you take away the most ICONIC Iceman power in this game?

Frozen Orbs is what sets Iceman apart from all others. The ability to deal large AoE as a spender power is Iceman's best offense.

If visual effect of the power is an issue, then why can't we tone down the visual? Make it less graphically intense. There is no logical reason to take away Iceman's most iconic (and most effective) power. Storm has godly number of Balls of Lighting, and they are visually satisfying and loads of fun as spender power. Frozen Orbs is just as fun.. and now you took it away?

I was worried that you guys would take away Iceman's Frozen Orbs, and the nightmare became reality! :-(

I am very very disappointed in this re-design.

By the way, if the design team really read our "feedback" since the test centre iteration, many of us Iceman veteran players ADORE frozen Orbs and dislike Ice Beams.

I don't know where the design got the idea of taking away the "frozen orbs" and make it a cool-down power?

We LOVE TO SPAM Frozen Orbs! I love to increase my Area Radius so that my orbs could potential have an extra tick of damage--at the expense of lower damage due to less offensive artifacts (or medallion). But this is a "player-style" choice. Sometimes we just want to spam large AoE power for the "thrill" just like ball of lighting.

PLEASE RE-CONSIDER redesign the graphic of the orbs instead of making a cool-down power.

Location Bandung, IndonesiaPosts: 176 Incredible

@MichaelMayhem

I'm putting melee iceman in your hands hopefully he gets better, I know melee Bobby isnt that popular but before any update hes too easy to die without abusing ice block, does sub par damage compared to other heroes cept the signature.

Weapon-XPosts: 847 Amazing

I'd personally rather have frozen orb have a small cool down as long as it's a room clearer. (Or having charges and talents modify it) I remember decimating groups of enemies with a single orb on my Sorceress. Spamming them is a bit annoying to me, but I can see the appeal of it.

What if it had a cool down but the orb had a chance to spawn more orbs on enemy deaths?

Posts: 2,549 Cosmic

@MichaelMayhem Any comment on keeping Frost Nova's cooldown reset? It's really fun and I would take a toned down bonus to shatter powers in order to keep the cooldown reset.

Without the cooldown reset there's not much reason to take the talent.

Posts: 835 Amazing

@Michaelmayhem Thank you for taking time out for giving us some feedback one thing I'm wondering is are we able to get any animation changes to our beam powers? Example Ice Beam using the talent Chilled to the bone making Ice Beam more burst should't this be a little flashier compared to what it normally looks like maybe widen the beam just a visual upgrade thought that would be much appreciated again Thanks for some feedback sir.

Posts: 2,549 Cosmic

Oh also I forgot to mention that frozen orb is tuned like a spender, it needs a damage bump if it is supposed to be a layer.

Posts: 1,889 Cosmic
edited February 16

@MichaelMayhem said:
Snowblower has mixed feedback regarding stationary vs moving. Stationary makes it a better area clear, but does force it into a similar space as Ice Beam. Moving is better for theme (it was added due to requests for more Ice Slide combat tricks), but is harder to keep damage on a target. We can return this on a talent, but it has the problem of needing to be added on to another talent - on its own, it's too niche to eat an entire talent slot, and added onto any other talent, it may create friction if you want only a portion of that talent and not the change to Snowblower. Best course of action at this point seems to be to keep it stationary, since the mobile version can't be as fast as the ice slide would want to be and doesn't fulfill the Iceman fantasy as well as his Travel power or his Signature already do.

I could be wrong, but I feel the Movement Snowblower mainly suits the melee build. If you're playing ranged, it's going to move you closer to a target you weren't really interested in closing in on to begin with. The same also kind of holds true for Glacial Slam. It's a power I can't really see using without a melee-talented build, for much the same reason.

Just spitballing, but what if we reworked Avalanche to fill that role and emphasize that focus on mobility. We could make it a talent all about ice sliding, essentially. Maybe have it convert Snowblower to its Movement form, give some bonus to Snow Plow (+1 charge, reduced cooldown, etc) and give him Rogue's secondary-resource version of Juggernaut's Momentum -- but light blue, obviously. Snowblower would generate Momentum quickly. Snow Plow would generate a burst of it when used. Glacial Slam would spend it for a damage bonus. Regular melee builds could take it just for the extra dashing and periodic damage boost to their gap closer, or you could main Snowblower to make a full movement build out of it. Thoughts?

Location New YorkPosts: 500 Amazing

@mikwuyma said:
Oh also I forgot to mention that frozen orb is tuned like a spender, it needs a damage bump if it is supposed to be a layer.

Agreed, I am fine with frozen orb being on cooldown, as I mentioned in a previous post, but then it should be tuned up appropriately

Location New YorkPosts: 500 Amazing

These all sound great and I look forward to seeing the next iteration. Thanks for the update

Location ThedasPosts: 15,956 Cosmic

@MichaelMayhem said:
Some commentary while I digest and make some iterations for tomorrow:

Seems like Chillblains is pretty popular - making it more of a viable choice seems like an easy win.

Removing Frozen Orb's cooldown is really, really hard to justify without turning the power into "throw snowballs", and make it look nothing like what it does now. It's that far beyond what should be accepted for performance and game visibility for a spammable attack. Compared to Doom or Storm's ball lightning attacks, you could stack 5 of each of those on top of each other and it STILL wouldn't equal one single Frozen Orb. It's also not terribly iconic to Iceman - it's our homage to a beloved power from the genre, but the general feeling was that true Iceman fans would prefer using beams or snowblower as an iconic area clearing skill - something more direct from his power set. Those powers aren't satisfying that role at the moment, so we'll need to improve on that to make the Frozen Orb change more digestible.

The timings of his skills can get pretty diverse with different talent builds and will need to be taken into account, such as Icebreaker also reducing Flash Freeze.

Frozen visuals are pretty hard to see, which makes Shatter not feel great. May need to do a pass on using a more solid visual rather than a material.

More Chill applicators are warranted. Likely to show up on Ice Wall or Snow Plow.

Deep Freeze powers having Ice Armor restoration and cooldowns is mixed and I'm not inclined to make any changes just yet. Having a rotational power like Ice Slick also act as a self-heal is powerful and I'm not sure if that aspect has been fully explored by those are used to it as a spammable. If other powers serve the spammable area clear better (powers that are designed to do so), perhaps that will help the Freeze powers be better justified as cooldown layers.

Snowblower has mixed feedback regarding stationary vs moving. Stationary makes it a better area clear, but does force it into a similar space as Ice Beam. Moving is better for theme (it was added due to requests for more Ice Slide combat tricks), but is harder to keep damage on a target. We can return this on a talent, but it has the problem of needing to be added on to another talent - on its own, it's too niche to eat an entire talent slot, and added onto any other talent, it may create friction if you want only a portion of that talent and not the change to Snowblower. Best course of action at this point seems to be to keep it stationary, since the mobile version can't be as fast as the ice slide would want to be and doesn't fulfill the Iceman fantasy as well as his Travel power or his Signature already do.

Thank you for keeping snowblower stationary all I ask is that could you guys please increase the length and also give it a talent that allows it to flash freeze a wide group of enemies? It would be turned into a high impact CD power which would just be awesome and a nice homage to X Men Legends!

Location New YorkPosts: 500 Amazing

@MichaelMayhem said:
It already did gain a damage bump when it gained the cooldown but it can be re-analyzed to see if it needs more. I wouldn't expect too much of a gain.

Hmm, if it did receive a bump as you indicate, then the problem is it still doesn't feel impactful when it's used. Maybe there could be a talent that reduces the charge to 1 with a cd of 6 sec but then has a significant bump in damage? That way those that want to use forb more can keep the two charge version as it is now, but those that want it to be more of an area clear could have the longer cooldown option?

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