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[Test Center] Iceman Update (2/22)

Location Bandung, IndonesiaPosts: 176 Incredible

@Zaqir said:

@Newager said:
@MichaelMayhem

I'm putting melee iceman in your hands hopefully he gets better, I know melee Bobby isnt that popular but before any update hes too easy to die without abusing ice block, does sub par damage compared to other heroes cept the signature.

I am thinking a tanking/melee Iceman can do quite well again coming from the view of a Colossus player who sees alot of similarities between them, making him tanky does take away from damage but I think he has potential.

I have yet to see how it goes dont have access to Tc atm. If the armor does work the way it scales dmg like colossus' then it is kind of defensive-offensive. I'm a Colossus guy as well but I find his damage hampered down in the current live build so I lost interest, will have to tinker with gears.

Posts: 556 Amazing

@Newager said:

@Zaqir said:

@Newager said:
@MichaelMayhem

I'm putting melee iceman in your hands hopefully he gets better, I know melee Bobby isnt that popular but before any update hes too easy to die without abusing ice block, does sub par damage compared to other heroes cept the signature.

I am thinking a tanking/melee Iceman can do quite well again coming from the view of a Colossus player who sees alot of similarities between them, making him tanky does take away from damage but I think he has potential.

I have yet to see how it goes dont have access to Tc atm. If the armor does work the way it scales dmg like colossus' then it is kind of defensive-offensive. I'm a Colossus guy as well but I find his damage hampered down in the current live build so I lost interest, will have to tinker with gears.

Not the case here. He gets no damage from Ice Armor. Only instance of that is if you take a terrible talent for glacial slam, which also spends all the armor.

Location The First CivilizationPosts: 5,169 Cosmic

@Celfix said:

@ApolloSeven said:

@LordBalen said:

@Faffinette said:

  • Frost Nova will be a default power and will be a large ranged power that applies Deep Freeze. It changes to melee with the talent.

  • Flash Freeze will also stay as it's own power, with the hitch on it being fixed so that it can flow easily and smoothly.

  • Snowblower get's it movement mechanic by selecting a talent for it that is included with the Glacial Slam talent in the fourth row (forget the name of it).

The thing about that is Frost nova and Flash Freeze can't exactly co-exist.. Not with the same affect as that immediately makes both a must. Since we are already forced into Flash Freeze, this is defo not the way to go. I don't mind being forced into Frost Nova as long as it has a better radius so it can stand alone in a ranged build. Unless they remove the 200% vuln on Frost Nova, increase the radius, add a dot to it and for melee it will turn into 200% vuln + melee tag.. But then that still means we have to use Flash Freeze =D

Yea I don't see anyone that would actually want to use the Glacial Slam talent, especially for a ranged so it makes sense.

They can co-exist... Just make it so both cannot be used at the same time. If you use Flash Freeze, you cannot have Frost Nova in your same set-up. Like how Cable's powers worked pre-update, you could only use one of three powers that worked in tandem with his signature, except this would be far less build specific. It's something that likely will not happen though.

@AlecTheLad I like the name Arctic Assault!

Location EuropePosts: 478 Amazing

@Kupursk said:

At least give as a damn choice of not making Frozen Orb a cooldown! Put the cooldown in a talent or something...

I wish the Talent system could have more choices like that, for Frozen Orb now, and also for Frozen Lance which used to be my spender until BUE gave it a cooldown (still miss the build I had pre-BUE).

Posts: 1,140 Fantastic

@MichaelMayhem said:
Iceman's changes did not make it in time for this build, sorry. Definitely will be in tomorrow.

Here's the notes to digest 'till then:

Chillblain base damage increased.

Frozen Orb base damage increased.

Icebreaker now also reduces the cooldown of Flash Freeze/Frost Nova

Hail Drop now Weakens enemies by default, and functions with the Avalanche talent.

Snowblower is once again stationary, serving the purpose of a channeled large-area clearing skill for Iceman. The radius of the power has been increased.

Snow Plow is now a Chill power. Snow Plow no longer Shatters.

Work of Art no longer scales as a Summon power by default, increasing its base damage and making it more attractive for non-Summon builds. The talent Chilling Constructs restores this functionality.

Ice Beam and Snowblower's Start and End animation times have been removed to improve responsiveness.

When Ice Beam is upgraded with Chilled to the Bone, it will have a slightly more impactful visual using an Ice Beam with each hand.

Frozen visuals for Ice Man now include a larger, more noticable particle of ice attached to the ground underneath each frozen target. This should help the effect be more noticeable in a fight.

Frozen Lance now always critically hits.

Can you please move the snowblower movement to the Avalanche talent, they both are tagged movement, making sense for them to be lumped together, perhaps even adding a charge to snow plow. Snowblower isn't much different than many of his other skills, so as stationary, I feel like it doesn't have much of a use.

Posts: 1,140 Fantastic

I do think he could use more powers, even if it's something easy like buffs.

I would like to see a buff power called "Spiked armor"

Spiked Armor: Ice man creates a hardened spikey shell around himself, that increases his damage absorption, and inflicts damage to those who dare attack him in melee range, and occasionally automatically retaliates against ranged attacker with flying shards of ice. When this power is activated Iceman taunts nearby enemies. While this power is active Iceman's damage is increased by 10 percent, and an additional 15 percent for melee powers.

Posts: 2,522 Cosmic

@JoshieB said:
I do think he could use more powers, even if it's something easy like buffs.

I would like to see a buff power called "Spiked armor"

Spiked Armor: Ice man creates a hardened spikey shell around himself, that increases his damage absorption, and inflicts damage to those who dare attack him in melee range, and occasionally automatically retaliates against ranged attacker with flying shards of ice. When this power is activated Iceman taunts nearby enemies. While this power is active Iceman's damage is increased by 10 percent, and an additional 15 percent for melee powers.

Sounds like a talent to ice block :p

Posts: 26 Mighty
edited February 17

@Celfix said:
The thing about that is Frost nova and Flash Freeze can't exactly co-exist.. Not with the same affect as that immediately makes both a must. Since we are already forced into Flash Freeze, this is defo not the way to go. I don't mind being forced into Frost Nova as long as it has a better radius so it can stand alone in a ranged build. Unless they remove the 200% vuln on Frost Nova, increase the radius, add a dot to it and for melee it will turn into 200% vuln + melee tag.. But then that still means we have to use Flash Freeze =D

Not sure how anyone is being forced into Frost Nova OR Flash Freeze.
We currently have Ice Slick, Flash Freeze/Frost Nova, Frozen Orb, Glacial Wall, Work of Art and Absolute Zero all of which have AoE Deep Freeze or some form of Shatter mechanic with or without a Talent, with the exception of Flash Freeze which is currently only single target and is mutually exclusive with Frost Nova.

There is no way to fully take advantage of using more than 2 of these without sacrificing survivability, as to utilize 3 Deep Freeze powers, one would likely need 3 Shatter powers due to cooldowns, making you take 6 powers and filling the other two with Dash and Signature.
If anything the current Power Set forces you into using Ice Slick, or one of the powers it procs on because it applies so many beneficial effects.

If Frost Nova were to become a huge effect, we would then be "forced" into ONLY using Frost Nova AND Ice Slick since Ice Beam and Frozen Orb would simply be a much more narrow and less practical means of applying Deep Freeze and Flash Freeze would become moot.

Posts: 2,522 Cosmic
edited February 17

@LordBalen said:

@Celfix said:
The thing about that is Frost nova and Flash Freeze can't exactly co-exist.. Not with the same affect as that immediately makes both a must. Since we are already forced into Flash Freeze, this is defo not the way to go. I don't mind being forced into Frost Nova as long as it has a better radius so it can stand alone in a ranged build. Unless they remove the 200% vuln on Frost Nova, increase the radius, add a dot to it and for melee it will turn into 200% vuln + melee tag.. But then that still means we have to use Flash Freeze =D

Not sure how anyone is being forced into Frost Nova OR Flash Freeze.
We currently have Ice Slick, Flash Freeze/Frost Nova, Frozen Orb, Glacial Wall, Work of Art all of which have AoE Deep Freeze or some form of Shatter mechanic with or without a Talent, with the exception of Flash Freeze which is currently only single target and is mutually exclusive with Frost Nova.

There is no way to fully take advantage of using more than 2 of these without sacrificing survivability, as to utilize 3 Deep Freeze powers, one would likely need 3 Shatter powers due to cooldowns, making you take 6 powers and filling the other two with Dash and Signature.
If anything the current Power Set forces you into using Ice Slick, or one of the powers it procs on because it applies so many beneficial effects.

If Frost Nova were to become a huge effect, we would then be "forced" into ONLY using Frost Nova AND Ice Slick since Ice Beam and Frozen Orb would simply be a much more narrow and less practical means of applying Deep Freeze and Flash Freeze would become moot.

Flash freeze gives you 200% vulnerability.. It's the only skill to do so.. So yes if you want to do DPS you are forced into it. Well we currently don't really have a "true" aoe.. I don't see why it's so bad for us to have Frost Nova, sure we are still forced into the 200% Vulnerability but it's a much more attractive skill if it had bigger radius..

Tags can be played around with..

Posts: 26 Mighty
edited February 17

@pairadox said:

@LordBalen said:
How does a slippery floor freeze a group of people??

So, at around -28 degrees C flesh freezes in about 15 minutes, give or take. If he cools the surrounding air as well as the ground upon impact of the slick (and given that he is an omega level mutant, he could probably start an ice age if he was in the mood.), he could very easily cause a super cooled area in which everything froze.

Sure, he's an omega mutant, but that doesn't mean all of his powers should be omega level. That means it would be reasonable to say Emma and Jean's regular powers should be able to make all of their enemies kill eachother, while applying DoTs or just make everyone catatonic with one power.

While you are attempting to answer my question to some degree (in real life terms, though this isn't realistic at all), in terms of gameplay, design, and balance, it is not practical.

Quite certain no other character has a low cooldown ability that applies so many beneficial effects. In context: If he can freeze a floor and freeze everyone and everything on it, whilce creating a layer of DoT, a Slow, applies Vulnerability, AND restores his Armor... What's the point of having any other ability?
Plus, the tooltip literally just talks about icing the ground to "impede" attackers.
No ability on any hero can do this much for them, including signatures.

It's clearly not a balanced ability by any means.
@MichaelMayhem please remove Deep Freeze from Ice Slick (and reduce or remove the cooldown), and make Flash Freeze AoE.
These changes would solve three issues - Ice Slick or it's proccing Powers will no longer be mandatory, Flash Freeze will have a use when not talented as Frost Nova, and Ice Slick can become the "Spammable" power everyone has been wanting.
Also, please keep Snow Plow as a Shatter power. I'm not sure I understand the reason for changing it to just a chill power.

Posts: 26 Mighty
edited February 17

@Celfix said:

Flash freeze gives you 200% vulnerability.. It's the only skill to do so.. So yes if you want to do DPS you are forced into it. Well we currently don't really have a "true" aoe.. I don't see why it's so bad for us to have Frost Nova, sure we are still forced into the 200% Vulnerability but it's a much more attractive skill if it had bigger radius..

Tags can be played around with..

Flash Freeze's % damage SHOULD be that or even higher, since it is a single target, but in reality because of the delays in the animations, cooldown and that is only single target, it really isn't beneficial to use.

As I mentioned before, making a Giant Frost nova would dwarf the purpose of any other Deep Freeze power, unless it was put on a much longer cooldown which I assume would disturb many rotations.

Flash Freeze and Frost Nova could essentially have the same effect just melee vs ranged if Flash Freeze were just turned into AoE.
If the damage bonus were reduced to +100% (to balance out AoE), and other powers like Frozen Orb, Ice Beam and Glacial Wall's base damage were brought in line with that, many, many more powers would be attractive AND viable and you wouldn't feel forced into anything.

Posts: 1,140 Fantastic

Small request, but now that icy arsenal has charges, can you change the power so it won't continuously attack if the power key is held down? The attack speed is so quick that a simple press of the button can use multiple charges. Starlord has this mechanic with close quarters. I would also like this on his frozen orb, as well as Storm's ball lightning (when the talent is chosen that gives it charges)

Posts: 1,539 Fantastic

With all these requests and ideas we have, I'm starting to think they should have gone with 5 talents per row or something like that. I'd definitely like to see that in the future.

Posts: 2,522 Cosmic

@Screwface said:
With all these requests and ideas we have, I'm starting to think they should have gone with 5 talents per row or something like that. I'd definitely like to see that in the future.

Absolutely not! Sometimes it's hard enough to make a choice as is! More rows.. sure! More talents per row? Nopeeee

Location South of SanityPosts: 43 Mighty

@LordBalen said:

@pairadox said:

@LordBalen said:
How does a slippery floor freeze a group of people??

So, at around -28 degrees C flesh freezes in about 15 minutes, give or take. If he cools the surrounding air as well as the ground upon impact of the slick (and given that he is an omega level mutant, he could probably start an ice age if he was in the mood.), he could very easily cause a super cooled area in which everything froze.

Sure, he's an omega mutant, but that doesn't mean all of his powers should be omega level. That means it would be reasonable to say Emma and Jean's regular powers should be able to make all of their enemies kill eachother, while applying DoTs or just make everyone catatonic with one power.

While you are attempting to answer my question to some degree (in real life terms, though this isn't realistic at all), in terms of gameplay, design, and balance, it is not practical.

Quite certain no other character has a low cooldown ability that applies so many beneficial effects. In context: If he can freeze a floor and freeze everyone and everything on it, whilce creating a layer of DoT, a Slow, applies Vulnerability, AND restores his Armor... What's the point of having any other ability?
Plus, the tooltip literally just talks about icing the ground to "impede" attackers.
No ability on any hero can do this much for them, including signatures.

It's clearly not a balanced ability by any means.
@MichaelMayhem please remove Deep Freeze from Ice Slick (and reduce or remove the cooldown), and make Flash Freeze AoE.
These changes would solve three issues - Ice Slick or it's proccing Powers will no longer be mandatory, Flash Freeze will have a use when not talented as Frost Nova, and Ice Slick can become the "Spammable" power everyone has been wanting.

Well, that took all the fun out of my day.
No argument, its a good solution. Still Balen.... you're killing me.

Posts: 26 Mighty

@pairadox said:

Well, that took all the fun out of my day.
No argument, its a good solution. Still Balen.... you're killing me.

I'm sorry, I'm just very passionate about Iceman because he's so cool.
...

Posts: 835 Amazing

@Michaelmayhem test center changes today?

Posts: 556 Amazing

@Celfix said:

@LordBalen said:

@Celfix said:
The thing about that is Frost nova and Flash Freeze can't exactly co-exist.. Not with the same affect as that immediately makes both a must. Since we are already forced into Flash Freeze, this is defo not the way to go. I don't mind being forced into Frost Nova as long as it has a better radius so it can stand alone in a ranged build. Unless they remove the 200% vuln on Frost Nova, increase the radius, add a dot to it and for melee it will turn into 200% vuln + melee tag.. But then that still means we have to use Flash Freeze =D

Not sure how anyone is being forced into Frost Nova OR Flash Freeze.
We currently have Ice Slick, Flash Freeze/Frost Nova, Frozen Orb, Glacial Wall, Work of Art all of which have AoE Deep Freeze or some form of Shatter mechanic with or without a Talent, with the exception of Flash Freeze which is currently only single target and is mutually exclusive with Frost Nova.

There is no way to fully take advantage of using more than 2 of these without sacrificing survivability, as to utilize 3 Deep Freeze powers, one would likely need 3 Shatter powers due to cooldowns, making you take 6 powers and filling the other two with Dash and Signature.
If anything the current Power Set forces you into using Ice Slick, or one of the powers it procs on because it applies so many beneficial effects.

If Frost Nova were to become a huge effect, we would then be "forced" into ONLY using Frost Nova AND Ice Slick since Ice Beam and Frozen Orb would simply be a much more narrow and less practical means of applying Deep Freeze and Flash Freeze would become moot.

Flash freeze gives you 200% vulnerability.. It's the only skill to do so.. So yes if you want to do DPS you are forced into it. Well we currently don't really have a "true" aoe.. I don't see why it's so bad for us to have Frost Nova, sure we are still forced into the 200% Vulnerability but it's a much more attractive skill if it had bigger radius..

Tags can be played around with..

It's actually 100%, or rather, 90% since it doesnt stack with regular vulnerability. This coupled with the fact that flash freeze is still a clunky mess makes it better to just take 2 shatter powers over 1 shatter + flash freeze.

Location New YorkPosts: 500 Amazing
edited February 17

@LordBalen said:

@pairadox said:

Well, that took all the fun out of my day.
No argument, its a good solution. Still Balen.... you're killing me.

I'm sorry, I'm just very passionate about Iceman because he's so cool.
...

uh oh.... iceman puns....they make me shiver

Posts: 26 Mighty

@Faffinette said:
It's actually 100%, or rather, 90% since it doesnt stack with regular vulnerability. This coupled with the fact that flash freeze is still a clunky mess makes it better to just take 2 shatter powers over 1 shatter + flash freeze.

Is that true for all Vulnerability effects? Such as Cobra's Hood or Vision's +20% Solar Damage?
Do they not stack with regular Vulnerability?

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